Overall DVD sales have been declining over the past couple of years, but the format’s expected successor, Blu-ray, also hasn’t done very well in this turbulent economy.
Merrill Lynch analyst Jessica Reif-Coheh believes the home movie market can get a large assistance boost from online downloads and the Blu-ray format, and the home video industry could see modest growth in 2011.
Triple digit growth could be possible in 2009, as another analyst firm, Glopbal Media Intelligence, predicted up to 300 percent growth of the Blu-ray format in 2009. Althoughthat’s "slightly aggressive," Reif-Cohen noted, it could still drastically increase over the next nine months.
Blu-ray currently controls just four percent of the home video market, but assuming the price of Blu-ray continues to drop, I think it can control as much as 10 percent of the market by the first quarter of 2010. To reach this goal, however, the price of both Blu-ray movies and standalone players need to drop further, as more manufacturers continue to roll out new players.
Not only are there new players being released at a more frequent rate, but they also are noticeably cheaper than older Blu-ray models.
I’m curious to see how much further, if at all, the video market deteriorates the rest of 2009 — the economy may be disappointing, but it’s obvious people still want to be entertained by watching movies and content.
What price point does Blu-ray need to reach before you purchase a player, if you haven’t already?
68 Comments
Psst, drop the drive prices in the PC market. The settop boxes will follow eventually.
$150 bluray-r drive and $1.00 discs would do it for me, errr maybe, depending on drm.
I'd agree with this.. prices are slowly coming down and is it becomes more affordable, more people will buy into it. I also figure blu-ray might have a long shelf life, because I can see them replacing 1080p HD as the standard for a long time. DVD was awesome when it came out, but they didn't predict the advent of everyone buying bigger tv's and hdtv's. Unless everyone has a movie screen in their house, 1080p should be around for a while.. hence so should bluray.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 22 Mar 09 02:14
i will never buy a blue ray player are you kidding me these people have to have have a blu ray recorder with a built in 1 tb hdd and that i can record hi def from my cable company stop screwing us recorder blu ray has been out in japon and other countries for well over 5 years and you blu ray need to get rid of crm
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 22 Mar 09 06:35
I am going to ask all of you this question and finally put Blueray in the coffin
1.Say I have a dvd with 5 layers ( 10 gigs each) = 50 gigs
2.Say I have a BD-Rom = 50 gigs
3.A movie is burned unto both
Which Media has the better movie??
Answer and then understand all this Blueray DOES NOT EXIST!!!! it is so simple and stupit that Sony has pulled the greatist scam of all time!!!!!
1.Say I have a dvd with 5 layers ( 10 gigs each) = 50 gigs
2.Say I have a BD-Rom = 50 gigs
3.A movie is burned unto both
Which Media has the better movie??
Answer and then understand all this Blueray DOES NOT EXIST!!!! it is so simple and stupit that Sony has pulled the greatist scam of all time!!!!!
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 22 Mar 09 06:39
I guess I can give my answer
They are both the same, same movie quality because it is the same damn data that is burned into both media.
So what is Blueray, simple it's a DVD with multiple layers = about 50 gigs.
Good one Sony but you havent' fooled me!!!!
They are both the same, same movie quality because it is the same damn data that is burned into both media.
So what is Blueray, simple it's a DVD with multiple layers = about 50 gigs.
Good one Sony but you havent' fooled me!!!!
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 22 Mar 09 08:48
Jesus Christ coolios, you can't be serious...
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 22 Mar 09 09:43
Will never buy Blu Ray.Downloads are the future.With flash memory and hard drives getting cheap its the way to go.Just look what happened to music.When was the last time you bought a cd?
Forgive me for being dense, but where can you get a red-laser DVD with 50 gigabytes on it? Where can you even get one with one layer containing 10 gigabytes?
Are you trying to say that Blu-ray is really just a regular DVD with a new name, and is just a scam?
How do you explain the spacing of the DVD holes versus the wavelength of the lasers?
Did you know that George Bush caused the World Trade Center to explode and that Sarah Palin did not really give birth to Trig?
Did you know that the Earth is flat and that the Moon landings in 1969 were filmed in a studio here on Earth?
I will stop arguing now, because I don't want to be indistinguishable from the moron with whom I am arguing.
Are you trying to say that Blu-ray is really just a regular DVD with a new name, and is just a scam?
How do you explain the spacing of the DVD holes versus the wavelength of the lasers?
Did you know that George Bush caused the World Trade Center to explode and that Sarah Palin did not really give birth to Trig?
Did you know that the Earth is flat and that the Moon landings in 1969 were filmed in a studio here on Earth?
I will stop arguing now, because I don't want to be indistinguishable from the moron with whom I am arguing.
er, no they're not bobby, bandwidth is terrible in most countries, so unless the ISP's pull their fingers out and give us more bandwidth for less money, its never going to happen! buffering is awful!
and coolio, you don't get 5 layer DVD's, unless it was a concept that never came to anything!
and coolio, you don't get 5 layer DVD's, unless it was a concept that never came to anything!
CD's still outsell downloads! 
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 22 Mar 09 18:32
Lmao you guys didn't get the point did you?
BDROM info
The name Blu-ray Disc is derived from the blue laser (violet-colored) used to read and write to this type of disc. Because of the wavelength (405 nanometres), substantially more data can be stored on a Blu-ray Disc than on the DVD format, which uses a red (650 nm) laser. A dual-layer Blu-ray Disc can store 50 gigabytes, almost six times the capacity of a dual-layer DVD, or ten and a half times that of a single-layer DVD.
Now answer the question again!!!
So if we used a Blue Laser at 405 nm would we be able to burn more date to a regular DVD-R?
DUH!!!!!
Here is another question to pick your brain will there ever be then a regular dvd recorder that uses the blue laser 405 nm burn ?? now you see my point there is nothing that blueray is , just a smaller wavelengh laser period!!! coupled with a couple of layers JUST LIKE DVDROMS!!!!
There is no conspiracy only stupidity.
And to be final if you still haven't waken up the only reason blue ray movies look better is all due to the fact that the movies are less compressed!! Not due to Sony blue ray is better nonsense. Sony does not actually say "yes blue ray movies look better due to how much data can be burned using a smaller wavelenght laser"
That is more of a correct way of describing Blue ray movies that is what I hate people don't even know that the BDrom can hold 50 gigs of data. Consumers are very uneducated by Sony on purpose.
BDROM info
The name Blu-ray Disc is derived from the blue laser (violet-colored) used to read and write to this type of disc. Because of the wavelength (405 nanometres), substantially more data can be stored on a Blu-ray Disc than on the DVD format, which uses a red (650 nm) laser. A dual-layer Blu-ray Disc can store 50 gigabytes, almost six times the capacity of a dual-layer DVD, or ten and a half times that of a single-layer DVD.
Now answer the question again!!!
So if we used a Blue Laser at 405 nm would we be able to burn more date to a regular DVD-R?
DUH!!!!!
Here is another question to pick your brain will there ever be then a regular dvd recorder that uses the blue laser 405 nm burn ?? now you see my point there is nothing that blueray is , just a smaller wavelengh laser period!!! coupled with a couple of layers JUST LIKE DVDROMS!!!!
There is no conspiracy only stupidity.
And to be final if you still haven't waken up the only reason blue ray movies look better is all due to the fact that the movies are less compressed!! Not due to Sony blue ray is better nonsense. Sony does not actually say "yes blue ray movies look better due to how much data can be burned using a smaller wavelenght laser"
That is more of a correct way of describing Blue ray movies that is what I hate people don't even know that the BDrom can hold 50 gigs of data. Consumers are very uneducated by Sony on purpose.
I don't really get your argument? A dvd would never fit on a cd, yet both of them can be a single layer platform. Video data required more space than a cd, so they invented a way to put more information on a disc of the same size.
The same with bluray. DVD video is compress and was intended to be view on SD tv's where one wouldn't notice the compression. Now that HDTV's became popular, they need more space. Both HD-DVD and Blu-ray offered more gb's per layer, which was all they needed. Both formats looked just as good.. they were ways of getting more space per layer (as triple, quadruple, etc layers don't seem to be quite feasible yet).
DVD's are CD's, and Blu-Ray's are DVD's. Its a continual re-invention of how to cram more space on a disc size that has become standard.
Blu-ray players also require more cpu power inside than a standard dvd player, because it takes more processing power then an SD image. So basically you invent a platform that has more space, and more robust hardware that can playback the files.
The same with bluray. DVD video is compress and was intended to be view on SD tv's where one wouldn't notice the compression. Now that HDTV's became popular, they need more space. Both HD-DVD and Blu-ray offered more gb's per layer, which was all they needed. Both formats looked just as good.. they were ways of getting more space per layer (as triple, quadruple, etc layers don't seem to be quite feasible yet).
DVD's are CD's, and Blu-Ray's are DVD's. Its a continual re-invention of how to cram more space on a disc size that has become standard.
Blu-ray players also require more cpu power inside than a standard dvd player, because it takes more processing power then an SD image. So basically you invent a platform that has more space, and more robust hardware that can playback the files.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 22 Mar 09 19:17
Coolios, do even you know what the **** are you talking about, because I'm sure the rest of us don't. I've read some gibberish, but what you just came out with ranks amongst the worst.
Blue lasers can neither read or write to standard DVDs since the thinner laser apature of a blue laser requires a thinner top layer, hence why Blu Ray disks have to have an extra protective layer.
But hey, maybe someone could invent some sort of special DVD disc doohickey that those blue lasers could read from and write to? That way we could benefit from the extra amount of data that could be then fit on the disc, perhaps someone could even use it to store video on? And because the discs would be so much bigger, they could use less compression and higher data rates, resulting in a far better picture? We can only hope one day all the boffins out there come up with such a thing.
Jesus.
Blue lasers can neither read or write to standard DVDs since the thinner laser apature of a blue laser requires a thinner top layer, hence why Blu Ray disks have to have an extra protective layer.
But hey, maybe someone could invent some sort of special DVD disc doohickey that those blue lasers could read from and write to? That way we could benefit from the extra amount of data that could be then fit on the disc, perhaps someone could even use it to store video on? And because the discs would be so much bigger, they could use less compression and higher data rates, resulting in a far better picture? We can only hope one day all the boffins out there come up with such a thing.
Jesus.
Once upon a time they tried blue wavelength laser on DVD media....Gosh darn it, it wouldn't work. Soo...They thought to themselves, why not create a media disc SPECIFICALLY for blue wavelength laser!!! They did, and then they were all like, "EUREKA!"
And then, they decided that this is new tech would have a new name to differenciate from DVD to accomodate people who used to shove CD's into their floppy drives. They pondered and pondered and pondered some more and then finally as they gazed upon the bright beautiful blue sky,,, they decided to call it Blu-ray, awwe, how cute.
And then, they was all like, "Hey this is all like, new stuff, and we has to charge more for itz cuz it costs more to manufacture, rite?" Guy smiley, then responded "Of Course!"
But, the spizazz of its much anticipated and highly publicized release met with lukewarm feelings. The crowd looked on in confusion and wondered what the hell was different, unaware and oblivious of its spacial and visual improvments. So, they went home, unimpressed and cynical of the obvious conspiracy to fleece the public for even more of their money. They curled up to their favorite DVD movie excited and marveled at the beauty that spun before them. Perfect they thought, I beat the MAN this evening.
Pleased and content with what the day's preceedings they once again took to task of making that CD work in that darn impossible "New CD drive" and then later on post unwieldy thoughts about Blu-ray on CDFreaks.
The End.
And then, they decided that this is new tech would have a new name to differenciate from DVD to accomodate people who used to shove CD's into their floppy drives. They pondered and pondered and pondered some more and then finally as they gazed upon the bright beautiful blue sky,,, they decided to call it Blu-ray, awwe, how cute.
And then, they was all like, "Hey this is all like, new stuff, and we has to charge more for itz cuz it costs more to manufacture, rite?" Guy smiley, then responded "Of Course!"
But, the spizazz of its much anticipated and highly publicized release met with lukewarm feelings. The crowd looked on in confusion and wondered what the hell was different, unaware and oblivious of its spacial and visual improvments. So, they went home, unimpressed and cynical of the obvious conspiracy to fleece the public for even more of their money. They curled up to their favorite DVD movie excited and marveled at the beauty that spun before them. Perfect they thought, I beat the MAN this evening.
Pleased and content with what the day's preceedings they once again took to task of making that CD work in that darn impossible "New CD drive" and then later on post unwieldy thoughts about Blu-ray on CDFreaks.
The End.
i agree with you but for one thing, bluray can read DVD, as the ps3, as well as other bluray drives can upscale DVD's. coolios is talking about something that cannot be done, or we would already have it!
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 22 Mar 09 21:54
Blu Ray and the PS3 can only read DVDs, and CDs because they also include a red laser pickup.
Blue lasers and red laser media. Red lasers and blue laser media. Never the twain shall meet.
According to NPD and DVD Information 3 million Blu Ray standalones sold last year, compared to 25 million DVD standalones. YTD Blu Ray movie sales so far have been 10%, up from 4% in 2008 and in less than 3 years. Movie downloads have been around much longer, and they're not even a blip on the radar yet. Steve Job's "hobby" is still just that.
Blue lasers and red laser media. Red lasers and blue laser media. Never the twain shall meet.
According to NPD and DVD Information 3 million Blu Ray standalones sold last year, compared to 25 million DVD standalones. YTD Blu Ray movie sales so far have been 10%, up from 4% in 2008 and in less than 3 years. Movie downloads have been around much longer, and they're not even a blip on the radar yet. Steve Job's "hobby" is still just that.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 22 Mar 09 23:23
I hear some sheep noises....
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=19037
There is only one pickup unit inside the PS3 BlueRay drive
It's a 3 wavelenght pickup with different lenses, the lenses really do all the work ( most of it)
Again why arent these pickups being put in regular DVD BURNERS!!!!
Since using them would allow for reading smaller pits!!! wow what a concept!!!
If you can't make the pit's smaller you add more layers thus increasing problems with layer transistions and scratches will result in a big problem
DVD = RDrom ( Red ray light )
Blue Ray= BDrom ( Blue ray light)
Is that better for you ??
I guess it's fair to change dvd roms to RDrom's?
Walking into a store I will now ask, hey do you have any Red Ray disks?? As Sony is allowed to Call their's BluRay!
There is a lot of little kids on here, scarry to think Sony got away with what I still think is an even bigger scam then MADOFF
In fact many of the first movies to appear blue ray disks were encoded with mpeg2 !!!! So you tell me should not sony be looked into this??
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=19037
There is only one pickup unit inside the PS3 BlueRay drive
It's a 3 wavelenght pickup with different lenses, the lenses really do all the work ( most of it)
Again why arent these pickups being put in regular DVD BURNERS!!!!
Since using them would allow for reading smaller pits!!! wow what a concept!!!
If you can't make the pit's smaller you add more layers thus increasing problems with layer transistions and scratches will result in a big problem
DVD = RDrom ( Red ray light )
Blue Ray= BDrom ( Blue ray light)
Is that better for you ??
I guess it's fair to change dvd roms to RDrom's?
Walking into a store I will now ask, hey do you have any Red Ray disks?? As Sony is allowed to Call their's BluRay!
There is a lot of little kids on here, scarry to think Sony got away with what I still think is an even bigger scam then MADOFF
In fact many of the first movies to appear blue ray disks were encoded with mpeg2 !!!! So you tell me should not sony be looked into this??
Blu-Ray recorders aren't what is stopping the masses buying into the new format it is the cost to upgrade your whole home theater system to get the true quality that it can produce.
Sorry but with Standard DVD's even the DL bought movie studio releases are compressed. So I won't buy into that and there is a true difference in viewing experiance watching a BD title over the SD one.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 23 Mar 09 01:10
The prices are coming down, but the media companies are still charging a premium on the Blu-Ray discs. At $29.99 for new releases, it's a hard sell. Prices on new release Blu-Ray discs need to come down to the $19.99 before the format will take over. As it is now, they are just shafting early adopters who are replacing their favorite movies on Blu-Ray.
@coolios
Let me guess, you wear tin foil on your head to prevent the space aliens from brain-washing you?
That 1 pickup still emits 3 different lasers. As far as adding them to DVD burners, I would imagine that they have and just called it a Bluray burner with DVDR support. Nothing covert about it man, lol.
The pits are not the same on either format.
Specification CD DVD Track Pitch 1600 nanometers 740 nanometers Minimum Pit Length
(single-layer DVD) 830 nanometers 400 nanometers Minimum Pit Length
(double-layer DVD) 830 nanometers 440 nanometers
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/dvd3.htm
Bluray pitch 0.32µm and DVD pitch 0.74µm
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/ section 2.4
I suggest you educate yourself in the future and stop drinking the koolaid from wherever you are getting it from. I am no Sony sycophant in the least but facts are facts bud.
As far as I know, the movies are still mpeg2. They are mpeg 2 transport streams.
Let me guess, you wear tin foil on your head to prevent the space aliens from brain-washing you?
That 1 pickup still emits 3 different lasers. As far as adding them to DVD burners, I would imagine that they have and just called it a Bluray burner with DVDR support. Nothing covert about it man, lol.
The pits are not the same on either format.
Specification CD DVD Track Pitch 1600 nanometers 740 nanometers Minimum Pit Length
(single-layer DVD) 830 nanometers 400 nanometers Minimum Pit Length
(double-layer DVD) 830 nanometers 440 nanometers
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/dvd3.htm
Bluray pitch 0.32µm and DVD pitch 0.74µm
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/ section 2.4
I suggest you educate yourself in the future and stop drinking the koolaid from wherever you are getting it from. I am no Sony sycophant in the least but facts are facts bud.
As far as I know, the movies are still mpeg2. They are mpeg 2 transport streams.
Uhh even the Bluray movies are compressed bud. So that argument is moot.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 23 Mar 09 02:09
Shaolin007, right on the money. The fact the studios used MPEG2 on early releases wasn't ideal, but I guess they wanted to reduce costs, and sticking with MPEG2 and taking advantage of Blu Ray's higher data transfer rate (50mb/s max over DVD's 10mb/s max) to improve the quality seemed like a good compromise. It's not been a problem for a good while though, I believe almost all releases in the last year or so have used MPEG4 or VC1.
Coolios, just keep digging yourself in deeper man. I didn't think you could possibly make yourself sound much dumber, but you've certainly got skills. My favorite has to be the stuff about putting blue lasers in DVD burners, it's like you just invented the BD writer. LOL. Keep it up guy, you're plumbing new depths. Oh, and remember - KEEP WATCHING THE SKIES!!!! Hahahahahaha.
Coolios, just keep digging yourself in deeper man. I didn't think you could possibly make yourself sound much dumber, but you've certainly got skills. My favorite has to be the stuff about putting blue lasers in DVD burners, it's like you just invented the BD writer. LOL. Keep it up guy, you're plumbing new depths. Oh, and remember - KEEP WATCHING THE SKIES!!!! Hahahahahaha.
No they still use m2ts. Got Taken 1080p and it is still m2ts.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 23 Mar 09 03:30
LMAO I guess I better start wearing double the foil now for sure!!
At least you mentioned my point as in a dvd recorder costs $30 how much is the blueray pickup cost to put in ?? naw don't do that just make a new packing and call it a blue ray recorder
Still gona mention when I am purchasing DVD'rs "Hello, you guys have any Red Ray dvd's here? after all it's only fair..
Thats what I will call all dvd's now RedRay's
Do not defend sony instead investigate them .
I do not understand how can sony can get away with pushing the blueray "looks 10 times better than dvd" campaign when they don't show the reason why : SIZE = less compression = more quality Compression to size ratio. It;s like sony is making the word blueray as a god or something, pathetic.
I guess now someone is going to come up with green ray too..no crap sony already bought that name...
At least you mentioned my point as in a dvd recorder costs $30 how much is the blueray pickup cost to put in ?? naw don't do that just make a new packing and call it a blue ray recorder
Still gona mention when I am purchasing DVD'rs "Hello, you guys have any Red Ray dvd's here? after all it's only fair..
Thats what I will call all dvd's now RedRay's
Do not defend sony instead investigate them .
I do not understand how can sony can get away with pushing the blueray "looks 10 times better than dvd" campaign when they don't show the reason why : SIZE = less compression = more quality Compression to size ratio. It;s like sony is making the word blueray as a god or something, pathetic.
I guess now someone is going to come up with green ray too..no crap sony already bought that name...
No one is defending Sony. If it were any other company, would that appease you? They're only refuting your rediculous statements that you can simply affix blue wavelength lasers to DVD recorders and expect it to work flawlessly. That fact you cant wrap your brain around this is truly baffling.
But the blueray laser can penetrate thru the double layered foil.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 23 Mar 09 09:12
shaolin007 "Got Taken 1080p and it is still m2ts". Sorry to have to ask this, but all the info I can find lists this as being an MPEG-4 movie ( http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=4365 http://technik.movie2digital.at/inde...threadID=50708), at least the US and Euro releases are. Why did you say you've got "Taken 1080p"? There's only one version, unless we're talking rips, in which case it's quite possible it's been ripped to MPEG2.
No offence meant, not calling you a pirate or anything, just pointing out your info appears innacurate.
No offence meant, not calling you a pirate or anything, just pointing out your info appears innacurate.
The jump from VHS to DVD was enormous. Plus you only had to buy the player. The jump from DVD to BluRay is not such a big on picture and sound wise unless you upgrade your TV and HiFi equipment to take advantage of it. Costly. Plus don't forget when DVD came out peope were happy to replace all their old VHS movies because of the quality, features and convenience. Apart from the sound and video quality on BluRay there is not other big advantages.
It will be a slow changeover...
It will be a slow changeover...
hold on deadman, you don't need to change your DVD's, as the bluray players upscale as well! so thats a big positive! also, you can't buy a CRT tv for love nor money, only LCD/PLASMA! thats another thing going blurays way.
could be quicker than you think......
could be quicker than you think......
Had HD-DVD won the battle against Blu-Ray i bet it would have had a bigger impact for the fact it was much cheaper to licence and make, Toshiba was going to allow chinese manufacturers to knock out players cheap which sony doesnt want to do. I remember reading somewhere Sony dont want their technology to devalue to quickly.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 23 Mar 09 13:15
@Deadman, you're right in a way, but no-one is suggesting anyone with a standard-def TV should be looking to buy a Blu-Ray player. If Blu-Ray's growth trend continues and history repeats, by the time they need to replace that set all they'll be able to get is Blu-Ray players, and by then they'll be cheap enough that they wont care.
Just like all the people with 20" sets didn't jump to buy DVD when they thought VHS was just fine.
As to the convenience etc, as steveo119 already said, there's no need to replace your DVDs, Blu-Ray decks will play them all just fine, which alleviates one of the biggest inconveniences of the VHS-DVD switchover (the other being the lack of DVD recorders which meant the VHS deck had to stay).
Just like all the people with 20" sets didn't jump to buy DVD when they thought VHS was just fine.
As to the convenience etc, as steveo119 already said, there's no need to replace your DVDs, Blu-Ray decks will play them all just fine, which alleviates one of the biggest inconveniences of the VHS-DVD switchover (the other being the lack of DVD recorders which meant the VHS deck had to stay).
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 23 Mar 09 13:27
@Quakester2000, I think you're a little confused.
The cheap Chinese players were for CH-DVD, now called CBHD ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CH_DVD ) which is completely incompatible with HD DVD.
There's no evidence that HD DVD players were cheaper to make, Toshiba just sold them cheap, largely responsible for the billion dollar loss they made selling 750,000 players.
If HD DVD movies were cheaper to make as some claimed, why were they never cheaper than Blu-Ray, or frequently even more expensive (combo discs for example)?
Finally, "somewhere" said that Sony don't want the technology to devalue too quickly, well of course they don't. That's a logical aim for any company looking to make a profit, but a completely different thing from stopping people making cheap players. Which obviously the BDA (which isn't just Sony - take note) isn't doing, since there are at least four third-tier cheap players on the market right now.
It's all "ifs and ands" though, HD DVD is dead.
The cheap Chinese players were for CH-DVD, now called CBHD ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CH_DVD ) which is completely incompatible with HD DVD.
There's no evidence that HD DVD players were cheaper to make, Toshiba just sold them cheap, largely responsible for the billion dollar loss they made selling 750,000 players.
If HD DVD movies were cheaper to make as some claimed, why were they never cheaper than Blu-Ray, or frequently even more expensive (combo discs for example)?
Finally, "somewhere" said that Sony don't want the technology to devalue too quickly, well of course they don't. That's a logical aim for any company looking to make a profit, but a completely different thing from stopping people making cheap players. Which obviously the BDA (which isn't just Sony - take note) isn't doing, since there are at least four third-tier cheap players on the market right now.
It's all "ifs and ands" though, HD DVD is dead.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 23 Mar 09 16:42
The only reason Blu-ray's not taken off properly is because of Sonys greed in licensing terms. There's a very limited choice on players, and certainly no really cheap ones. Discs are very expensive. So until Sony releases it's strangle hold a bit the market will never grow quickly. I've got Blu-ray, I'm reasonably impressed with the format, as I'm sure I would have equally have been with HD-DVD (which would have been my format of preference to replace DVD). I don't buy many discs though, they're just too damn expensive.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 23 Mar 09 16:56
BurnMaster, I agree it's still too expensive for most, but there's a huge range of players at prices from under $200 to a few 'k', and from every major consumer electronics company (except one, any guesses? LOL). That's a definate advantage Blu-Ray had over HD "any player,as long as it's a Toshiba" DVD.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 23 Mar 09 17:04
I may be wrong...but i think Coolio is trying to say why didn't they stick more layers on a "red" DVD to increase the capicity to hold HD films rather than bring out a new format altogether. Meaning, Toshiba holds the purse-strings to the DVD format and Sony wanted a larger slice of the pie, therefore inventing a the "blu-ray" format, which was not needed nor wanted by most people. It think thats whats he is driving at? If not, I'm totally confused like the rest 
Arrrr, swab da decks me maties!!! Arrrrr!!!
We could be both right.
http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/terms/mpeg2_transport_stream.cfm
"A MPEG-2 Transport Stream, also referred to as MPEG or MPEG-2 TS or simply TS, is a special format for transmitting MPEG (MPEG-1, MPEG-2, or MPEG-4) video muxed with other streams. It's commonly used for digital television and Streaming across networks, including the internet."
The files are named m2ts but after loading up the video in the player and looking at the properties, it says mpeg 4 in the properties.
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1920x1080 23.98fps [Video]
Audio: DTS 48000Hz 5ch 1509750Kbps [Audio]
Subtitle [Subtitle]
We could be both right.
http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/terms/mpeg2_transport_stream.cfm
"A MPEG-2 Transport Stream, also referred to as MPEG or MPEG-2 TS or simply TS, is a special format for transmitting MPEG (MPEG-1, MPEG-2, or MPEG-4) video muxed with other streams. It's commonly used for digital television and Streaming across networks, including the internet."
The files are named m2ts but after loading up the video in the player and looking at the properties, it says mpeg 4 in the properties.
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1920x1080 23.98fps [Video]
Audio: DTS 48000Hz 5ch 1509750Kbps [Audio]
Subtitle [Subtitle]
Yeah, Coolios tirades are too cryptic and incomprehensible. He seems to think people are defending Sony, when, in reality,nobody understands what the heck he's talking about. Of course, Blu-Ray allows for more capacity than DVD and, of course, this allows for far less compression, therefore, potentially, higher image and sound quality. We know that already, what is he trying to say? That we don't know this?
As for the other possibility, that he's saying: why didn't someone just put more layers, or whatever, onto DVD. Well, why not? Sony would not allow anyone to do it? Why didn't the DVD Forum just do it, if it was so simple? Oh, and what about processing power for the higher definition? It was not just a matter of the physical medium: the players would need to be replaced (they would probably not be able to cope with the additional layers and would also not have the processing power to handle the higher definition).
So, all in all, Coolios seems like Dom Quijote fighting against who knows what. In the end he seems to be fighting against himself, since nobody really understands what he's talking about?!
As for the other possibility, that he's saying: why didn't someone just put more layers, or whatever, onto DVD. Well, why not? Sony would not allow anyone to do it? Why didn't the DVD Forum just do it, if it was so simple? Oh, and what about processing power for the higher definition? It was not just a matter of the physical medium: the players would need to be replaced (they would probably not be able to cope with the additional layers and would also not have the processing power to handle the higher definition).
So, all in all, Coolios seems like Dom Quijote fighting against who knows what. In the end he seems to be fighting against himself, since nobody really understands what he's talking about?!
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 23 Mar 09 17:58
I agree with you (and probably Coolio, too). Toshiba (and its consortium of companies) owned the HD-DVD format, which I believe was actually winning the format war. But then Sony (and its consortium of companies who owned BluRay) paid the major movie studios about $500 million to only release their movies on BluRay. This killed HD-DVD. At the very least, Sony should be investigated for manipulating the market. Can you imagine the uproar there would be if Microsoft paid every major game developer to only write/release games for the X-Box? People everywhere would declair war against Microsoft. Well, that's basically what Sony has done with movie releases, and no one anywhere is really saying mucy about it.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 23 Mar 09 18:36
Confused.com - He still doesn't make any sense, since Toshiba's HD DVD system ALSO used a blue laser. That means that he's basically saying Toshiba would have gone down the road of producing HD DVD when they could have come up with a red laser solution that was completely compatible with DVD and would therefore have protected all their luvverly DVD licensing revenues. That's a conspiracy theory of grassy-knoll-stilletto-heel-mark-on-the-moon-secret-Illuminati-society proportions. Well, maybe not quite THAT bad, but you know what I mean 
Compuser - And speaking of conspiracy theories, there's that "Waaahhhhh Sony bought the studios off they should be brought to book." one again. First problem: Everyone involved denied it, Disney and Warner laughed out loud at the very idea that they'd have been considering shifting to the format that got outsold two to one for a whole 12 months, and Murdoch almost split his sides in hilarity at the prospect that he'd let Fox switch to a format that he'd personally stood on a podium and described as pathetic. Meanwhile, the two studios that supposedly whiter-than-white Toshiba were supposed to have paid off mumbled an emphatic "no comment" when asked if they took Toshiba's coin. Until HD DVD bit the dust of course, and then they said "Yeah, we were well compensated".
Swapping your tin foil hat for a judges wig for a second, given the weight of evidence who do you reckon should be in the dock again?
Compuser - And speaking of conspiracy theories, there's that "Waaahhhhh Sony bought the studios off they should be brought to book." one again. First problem: Everyone involved denied it, Disney and Warner laughed out loud at the very idea that they'd have been considering shifting to the format that got outsold two to one for a whole 12 months, and Murdoch almost split his sides in hilarity at the prospect that he'd let Fox switch to a format that he'd personally stood on a podium and described as pathetic. Meanwhile, the two studios that supposedly whiter-than-white Toshiba were supposed to have paid off mumbled an emphatic "no comment" when asked if they took Toshiba's coin. Until HD DVD bit the dust of course, and then they said "Yeah, we were well compensated".
Swapping your tin foil hat for a judges wig for a second, given the weight of evidence who do you reckon should be in the dock again?
Toshiba aka HD-DVD did the same buying out studios so there is no way to argue that there. Sony just offered a better bargin to switch. Could Toshiba double that offer? Yes but they didn't and decided to throw in the towel. By the way I prefered HD-DVD over BD as well but now that BD is here I am moving forward now.
Actually, the PS3 (and similar devices) uses a red laser for reading DVD's, separate from the blue laser. ;-)
Blu-ray is a waste of time and money for the masses. Why should they spend money on a medium which offers barely any improvement over an upscaled DVD picture ? Money could be better spent somewhere else - and that is exactly what people are doing. Avoiding Blu-ray like the scam it is.
Sorry but on my Plasma TV and looking at apples to apples meaning a DVD and then a BD of the same title there is a big difference in the BD title over the SD one and I use the PS3 to upconvert. BD isn't a waste of time and will be around for at least 10+ years I expect. All I buy now is stuff on BD only.
Those guys saying that Blu-Ray is not much better than DVD should go to the doctor and have their eyes treated. Even looking at DVD upscaled v. MKV 1080p (even MKV 720p!) there's an obvious difference. And MKV uses more compression than native Blu-Ray. This on a 32" screen. I wonder what happens with bigger screens.
There is a lot of artifacts like noticing pixels and not just here and there but in the whole picture all the time. Thanks johnzap least there is one other here that can see the big difference. Most peoples problem is being cheap or just short of funds which can be understood. People just are hating on Sony which can be understood as well. The real picture is this though.
Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) was the Blu-Ray creator not Sony Inc. Blu-Ray was backed by Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung originally. Now it is backed by all studios now.
Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) was the Blu-Ray creator not Sony Inc. Blu-Ray was backed by Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung originally. Now it is backed by all studios now.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 24 Mar 09 13:47
You guys are right, of course.
Not that I believe many of these "can't tell the difference" jockeys really believe what they're saying, they're clearly either visually impaired or driven by a different agenda, but for those that are genuinely misguided the NYT did a nice layman's test a few weeks back. No huge screen TV, no myopic pixel-by-pixel comparisons, no cherry picked sci-fi SFX showpiece. Just a guy, a 46" TV, a decent movie and a Blu Ray vs upscaling comparison with Toshiba's top upscaler, the XDE. The conclusion? "the Blu-ray machine simply blew away both standard-definition players. The difference was dramatic. The Blu-ray images were smooth, sharp and rich. Every scene “popped” with a clarity and presence never seen with standard DVD, making the scenes, whether daytime exteriors or heavily shadowed interior club scenes, come alive."
http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/...-dvd-view-off/
Not that I believe many of these "can't tell the difference" jockeys really believe what they're saying, they're clearly either visually impaired or driven by a different agenda, but for those that are genuinely misguided the NYT did a nice layman's test a few weeks back. No huge screen TV, no myopic pixel-by-pixel comparisons, no cherry picked sci-fi SFX showpiece. Just a guy, a 46" TV, a decent movie and a Blu Ray vs upscaling comparison with Toshiba's top upscaler, the XDE. The conclusion? "the Blu-ray machine simply blew away both standard-definition players. The difference was dramatic. The Blu-ray images were smooth, sharp and rich. Every scene “popped” with a clarity and presence never seen with standard DVD, making the scenes, whether daytime exteriors or heavily shadowed interior club scenes, come alive."
http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/...-dvd-view-off/
I think people are avoiding Blu-ray because of its price, not because it's a scam.
The difference between SD and HD is apparent; however, from what I have seen on my 50" Plasma, it isn't a quantum leap in difference. You also have to understand that I have been using a 24" 16:10 1920x1200 LCD monitor for a quite some time now so my eyes are not bad. I am just use to seeing higher resolution pictures. Don't get me wrong though, watching 720p or 1080i broadcasts OTA, look great and now I find it hard to watch SD. Once Bluray players become comparablle to DVD players, I will probably get one eventually.
As I sit here naked in my beanbag chair, wearing my aluminum foil hat and reading the comments, I have to laugh. Legal downloads are nowhere near the future. Why? Because of bandwidth caps. Until the ISPs upgrade to fibre optic and stop throttling us, it's never gonna happen.
As for Coolios and his crazy statements, well, I'm just going to cross to the other side of the street when I see him coming. He's one crazy mofo. He drinks and beats his dog, and that's on a good day. Leave him be or he may bite you.
What else? Oh, right. Sony and Blu-ray. Sony's corporate greed and indifference to the needs of consumers is well documented, so no sense rehashing it. Blu-ray is, for the moment, dead. The recession killed it. It won the battle with HD DVD, but it lost the war. It may pick up in a year or two, but by then something else will be on the horizon. We're a fickle bunch.
As for Coolios and his crazy statements, well, I'm just going to cross to the other side of the street when I see him coming. He's one crazy mofo. He drinks and beats his dog, and that's on a good day. Leave him be or he may bite you.
What else? Oh, right. Sony and Blu-ray. Sony's corporate greed and indifference to the needs of consumers is well documented, so no sense rehashing it. Blu-ray is, for the moment, dead. The recession killed it. It won the battle with HD DVD, but it lost the war. It may pick up in a year or two, but by then something else will be on the horizon. We're a fickle bunch.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 24 Mar 09 16:34
Indeed, even on my 22" bedroom display I can see an outstanding improvement in PQ from Blu-ray over DVD.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 24 Mar 09 17:25
to Confused.com you understand my point 100% 100% 100% and no one here understands my cryptic language simply because you guys are on the inside and "I am on the outside looking in"" and and behind the cash counter so I see that 90% of customers don't know why blue ray is called blueray untill I tell them "more layers" and then they say so thats's all?? they they ask so add more layers to dvd thats what I get asked 100% of the time. So even lamers know basic math and reasoning skills.
@Coolios
Adding more layers to a DVD won't still get you what you want bud. The pitch size is still considerably larger than the pitch size of a Bluray disc. Currently, DVD can support 4 layers, 2 on each side of the disc. Even if you used ALL of the layers available to you, you still are limited to 17GB of data, not even near 25GB Bluray SINGLE LAYER disc. DVD's cannot hold 10GB per layer man. It is a physical limitation not a Sony has pulled the wool over our eyes BS. At most it can hold around 4GB each. You talk about math, yet you seem incapable of doing basic arithmetic.
Adding more layers to a DVD won't still get you what you want bud. The pitch size is still considerably larger than the pitch size of a Bluray disc. Currently, DVD can support 4 layers, 2 on each side of the disc. Even if you used ALL of the layers available to you, you still are limited to 17GB of data, not even near 25GB Bluray SINGLE LAYER disc. DVD's cannot hold 10GB per layer man. It is a physical limitation not a Sony has pulled the wool over our eyes BS. At most it can hold around 4GB each. You talk about math, yet you seem incapable of doing basic arithmetic.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 24 Mar 09 18:33
@Coolios, the reason we don't understand you isn't because you're "on the outside looking in", it's because you don't know what you're talking about so it all just looks like gibberish.
Need proof? - "90% of customers don't know why blue ray is called blueray untill I tell them "more layers"".
Blu Ray has the SAME number of layers as DVD, but the blue laser means it can hold MORE data on the same number of layers.
When you foist your ignorance on others you really shouldn't wonder why they don't know what the fuck you're talking about. The answer is to educate yourself, not dig yourself in deeper.
More layers. LOL
Need proof? - "90% of customers don't know why blue ray is called blueray untill I tell them "more layers"".
Blu Ray has the SAME number of layers as DVD, but the blue laser means it can hold MORE data on the same number of layers.
When you foist your ignorance on others you really shouldn't wonder why they don't know what the fuck you're talking about. The answer is to educate yourself, not dig yourself in deeper.
More layers. LOL
You should tell them they call it Blu-ray because it uses a blue laser rather than a red one to read and write. By using blue laser light, they can pack about 6 times more data in the same space as they could with the older, DVD writing strategy. This extra storage capacity dovetails nicely with the new, larger sized HD movie titles.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 24 Mar 09 18:54
FROM BDA ASSOCIATION themselves
Blueray format was made to so it could be upgradable to include more than 20 layers
Wake up !!!! In Fact there are companies working on 500 gig disks
Sony has improperly marketed blueray period!! They did not educate their consumers . You will never hear sony say this phrase
"Blue Ray movies look so much better because they are less compressed" Sony has never marketed blueray for what it is nothing more than old technology put into a new packaging.
I will predict this now and call me crazy since Sony just sold the Warner Brothers distribution to Entertainment One in Canada . Sony you are going down and I am saying this one :l The PS4 will run I7's from INtel . Good luck.
Blueray format was made to so it could be upgradable to include more than 20 layers
Wake up !!!! In Fact there are companies working on 500 gig disks
Sony has improperly marketed blueray period!! They did not educate their consumers . You will never hear sony say this phrase
"Blue Ray movies look so much better because they are less compressed" Sony has never marketed blueray for what it is nothing more than old technology put into a new packaging.
I will predict this now and call me crazy since Sony just sold the Warner Brothers distribution to Entertainment One in Canada . Sony you are going down and I am saying this one :l The PS4 will run I7's from INtel . Good luck.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 24 Mar 09 19:17
Hey coolios I bet you got scammed into buying a computer with a hard drive. Don't you know HDDs are a scam? They're just a floppy disk with more capacity! Wake up1!
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 24 Mar 09 19:20
@ Coolios "call me crazy".
You're crazy. The only coherent thing you've said, and probably the first all of us can agree on.
I look forward to your next rant, perhaps on the big CD conspiracy, or "Why no 800MB floppy discs?" as you'll probably call it.
Get back under your counter, you nutjob.
You're crazy. The only coherent thing you've said, and probably the first all of us can agree on.
I look forward to your next rant, perhaps on the big CD conspiracy, or "Why no 800MB floppy discs?" as you'll probably call it.
Get back under your counter, you nutjob.
Hybrid cars are also a scam. Better watch out for those.
@Coolios
Ok so your whole argument is that they could fit more layers on DVD so why not do it? Well for one they could. Would it be cost effective? No, it would be just as expensive as the current Bluray discs if not more. Did you ever wonder why there aren't any double sided dual layer discs? But still, even if you did, you are still limited to the amount of data you can put on a single layer due to pitch size and you run into the problem of having more layers causing more problems. Just like CD, using near infrared, and DVD, using red, lasers, Bluray was a progression in the optical technology. Blue lasers have been out since the early 90's but it was only up to here recently it was economically viable for consumers. There is nothing mysterious about. There are not going to be black helicopters and men in black hovering your house watching your every move. I don't know why, how, or where you got your information but I would recommend that YOU do some research on your own and stop getting your information from doomsayers. Think for yourself and don't let others think for you. That is a recipe for disaster.
Ok so your whole argument is that they could fit more layers on DVD so why not do it? Well for one they could. Would it be cost effective? No, it would be just as expensive as the current Bluray discs if not more. Did you ever wonder why there aren't any double sided dual layer discs? But still, even if you did, you are still limited to the amount of data you can put on a single layer due to pitch size and you run into the problem of having more layers causing more problems. Just like CD, using near infrared, and DVD, using red, lasers, Bluray was a progression in the optical technology. Blue lasers have been out since the early 90's but it was only up to here recently it was economically viable for consumers. There is nothing mysterious about. There are not going to be black helicopters and men in black hovering your house watching your every move. I don't know why, how, or where you got your information but I would recommend that YOU do some research on your own and stop getting your information from doomsayers. Think for yourself and don't let others think for you. That is a recipe for disaster.
oh, duke duke duke, you've got it so wrong!!
first off, how can you say that blu is dead when it is comparitable to when DVD was at in its infancy?
and again, you're throwing your punches at sony, when they dont even own the bluray format? will you be doing the same to Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung?
first off, how can you say that blu is dead when it is comparitable to when DVD was at in its infancy?
and again, you're throwing your punches at sony, when they dont even own the bluray format? will you be doing the same to Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung?
The conclusion I get from this surreal topic is: I pity the poor customers who talk with this dude, Coolios. Poor guys! The store, or whatever, where he works, should have a BIG sign reading: "WARNING! Crazy employee inside! Enter at your own risk!".
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 27 Mar 09 19:10
The diference between DVD and Blu Ray is so small I am sorry I ever bought my Sony Blu Ray Player, I cant imagine Blu Ray will ever be more than a niche market. the prices are way out of line as well, I am done with Blu Ray.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 27 Mar 09 19:35
BRAVO! You are the smartest person on this post.
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 27 Mar 09 19:59
Have any of you every watched a DVD-R or Blu-Ray disc being manufactured? It is an intricate process. BDR is 5 times more intricate than manufacturing a DVD disc, and if you "stacked" 5 DVD's together, what possible bonding agent would you use? How would it sit in the drive tray (drive trays would have to be re-engineered). The speed at which a disc spins in the drive would make such a contraption self-destruct, not to mention what would happen if you tried to print to it. Personally, I'm grateful for BDR. It is the future of my industry (optical media manufacturing).
if you say so pal! when are you getting your cataracts done by the way?
if you're saying upscaled DVD, then they're not too far apart, but standard DVD - blu-ray? no chance!!
if you're saying upscaled DVD, then they're not too far apart, but standard DVD - blu-ray? no chance!!
- guest
- Posts: 15288
- Posted on: 30 Mar 09 18:57
I think Ben is sharing a pipe with Coolios, if not an entire ego
It's already more than a niche market, so step right on up Benny-boy, I got plenty for you both! Those upscaled SD DVDs look SO much better after a good draw!
LOL
It's already more than a niche market, so step right on up Benny-boy, I got plenty for you both! Those upscaled SD DVDs look SO much better after a good draw!
LOL
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