Microsoft employees reportedly knew the Xbox 360 video game console would scratch game disks prior to its release on the market, according to an unsealed document. The Redmond, Wash.-based company now faces several lawsuits related to the alleged defective design of the video gmae console.
According to one of the recently unsealed documents, Microsoft was fully aware they were releasing a game console that could scratch discs if the Xbox 360 was moved from the vertical to horizonal position if a game was inside while the console was on.
"This is … information that we as a team, the optical disc drive team, knew about. When we first discovered the problem in September or October, when we got a first report of disc movement, we knew this is what’s causing the problem," Microsoft Program Manager Hiroo Umeno said during testimony.
Umeno and his team reportedly offered three different possible solutions to the scratched disc problem, but they were all shot down.
Microsoft obviously was quick to react to the news, adding that other game consoles will scratch discs if moved while in operation.
"Xbox 360 is designed so that it will not damage a game disc as long as the console is not moved while the disc is spinning," a Microsoft spokesperson told SeattlePI. "Too much movement of any game console, not just the Xbox 360, can cause scratches on the disc. That’s why we put a warning on the face of the disc tray, which the user has to physically remove before the initial use of the system. We also have warnings posted online and in hard copy instruction manuals."
The problem also has plagued gamers who don’t move their consoles around, with demands of new game discs and the problem to be fixed by Microsoft.
It’ll be interesting to see what comes of these class action lawsuits Microsoft now faces — will the company drag this through court, or will lawyers be willing to make some payments and make this disappear.
35 Comments
I wonder how much money Microsoft is willing to pay to try and get this legal case over as fast as possible. If it's true that the company knew it could scratch discs, even if they put warning labels on everything, it's irresponsible, IMO.
- guest
- Posts: 15284
- Posted on: 17 Dec 08 00:06
If you're dumb enough to move a game system, computer, or DVD player while the disc inside is still spinning, you deserve to have your disc scratched. It's called simple physics kids.
While I think anyone who moves the console while a disc is in it and spinning deserves whatever happens to the disc (in other words, you're an idiot and deserve a scratched disc, duh, it's spinning, don't move it) I also think it would be easy for MS to address the issue. Just have affected customers send in the damaged disc with a pre-paid return envelope, and MS will send a new disc back. This way, MS eats some of the cost and the customer eats a bit for being stupid. I realize staffing a return division and servicing the number of requests likely to be sent would be costly (people it seems really ARE stupid and I'm sure plenty damage their discs) the cost of manufactured media is cheap, and lawyers have got to be more costly than hourly labor opening envelopes and stuffing discs back in. Plus the good will would be worth a ton.
However, if the consoles scratch discs while stationary, as many have claimed, then that's a design flaw and MS should eat the whole cost, replace the discs and send a new drive with a better design.
Of course, the whole thing is a moot issue if the M$ morons hadn't made it so hard to make backups of the discs. If folks could make backups, they could scratch all they liked, just burn more.
However, if the consoles scratch discs while stationary, as many have claimed, then that's a design flaw and MS should eat the whole cost, replace the discs and send a new drive with a better design.
Of course, the whole thing is a moot issue if the M$ morons hadn't made it so hard to make backups of the discs. If folks could make backups, they could scratch all they liked, just burn more.
You do understand that it isn't just people who are moving there console while playing games that are getting this problem right? Cause I have never moved my console and have had this issue and others that have made posts here have admitted to the same thing. Read the comments here http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/15292-Microsoft-sued-over-scratched-game-discs.html
For those people calling people stupid for scratched discs after they move the console is the dumb one. You should not get a scratched disc from moving the console, DISCMANS are portable and moved while in use, like a jog or a walk, you can design the machines to not scratch while moved. There are many reasons to move a console while in use. Some people cant hook there console permanently to there TV, and if mommy is vacuuming and needs the console lifted so she can do so, well then that is a legitimate reason so move the console while in use, and you cant always save the games and go back to the played location in a game to stop the unit so you can move it. No machine should damage disc while moved PERIOD, so M$ needs to fix this simple problem and release a good product and quite bitching about it. And I don’t own a 360 and i never will because I don’t spend money on junk, and the 360 obviously is junk.
If you want a Disc Shredder ... buy an Xbox 360 ...
If you want a Gaming Console, Entertainement Centre, or simple Blu-ray Player .. Buy a PS3
If you want a Gaming Console, Entertainement Centre, or simple Blu-ray Player .. Buy a PS3
Serves people right for buying Microsoft junk.
- guest
- Posts: 15284
- Posted on: 17 Dec 08 07:46
Or if you want to grow up and get a life, you can save your money and not buy ANY video game system!
This is not only a 360 problem, all data discs that spin at the rate they do face this or worse problems (shattering).
Moving console that contains a disc spinning at thes speeds they do is a bad thing to do in any data disc player, consoles, PC DVD ROMS etc..
If you need to move it, turn it off or risk damage. MS makes it very clear, you cannot insert a disc into the disc tray without removing the warning that says in bold letters "never move the console when a disc is playing".
Discman players do not spin at anywhere near the speeds that the data dics spin in a 360 or a DVD ROM drive in a PC. DVD ROMs have been known to shatter in PC DVD-ROMS because of the speeds involved.
That said, some discs are getting damaged without consoles being moved. Although the 3 consoles I've owned never did.
I've posted this a few times, a must read for 360 owners
http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives...h_failures.php
Moving console that contains a disc spinning at thes speeds they do is a bad thing to do in any data disc player, consoles, PC DVD ROMS etc..
If you need to move it, turn it off or risk damage. MS makes it very clear, you cannot insert a disc into the disc tray without removing the warning that says in bold letters "never move the console when a disc is playing".
Discman players do not spin at anywhere near the speeds that the data dics spin in a 360 or a DVD ROM drive in a PC. DVD ROMs have been known to shatter in PC DVD-ROMS because of the speeds involved.
That said, some discs are getting damaged without consoles being moved. Although the 3 consoles I've owned never did.
I've posted this a few times, a must read for 360 owners
http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives...h_failures.php
If you don't like video games, keep it to yourself but don't dare suggest that its not "grown up" or that we need to get lives.
F-OFF with that attitude. There is nothing wrong with loving video games. I will be 40 in a few months, have a great life and love gaming. That will never change. Its unfortuante you are so close minded.
F-OFF with that attitude. There is nothing wrong with loving video games. I will be 40 in a few months, have a great life and love gaming. That will never change. Its unfortuante you are so close minded.
Some? It seems like all these people are more then just some. Very few of these people are having an issue because they moved there system. I don't see why anyone would move there console while playing. Read all the posts here http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13225-Microsoft-admits-scratch-problem-with-Xbox-360.html
I only lost 1 game to this problem with my first gen Xbox360, about 33 days after purchasing the game. Fortunately the retailer was kind enough to look beyond the 30 day exchange period.
And before you ask, yes, I know not to move any optical reader around while it's spinning. It happened while I was playing the game.
But since then, the console red ringed & the new one I received turned out to be the 2nd to most recent ver. Runs much quieter.
And before you ask, yes, I know not to move any optical reader around while it's spinning. It happened while I was playing the game.
But since then, the console red ringed & the new one I received turned out to be the 2nd to most recent ver. Runs much quieter.
Yes some, its not the majority or this would have been big news 2 years ago. As your link states: The problem also seems to be mainly found by consoles produced in December 2006.
It was big news 1 1/2 year ago which is when that news was released
- guest
- Posts: 15284
- Posted on: 17 Dec 08 21:11
Ivid, before you post messages do your homework. There are two things that the Xbox360 is famous for, and has been almost since it's release date, RROD, and scratched disks! it's on almost every 360 fansite including Microsofts. I haven't heard of to many PS3's with these problems though, are you saying PS3 users don't move their consoles while the disk is spinning? if that's the case why do 360 users seem to be the only ones doing it? is this console so good looking that people feel the need to touch it and move it constantly? I think not.......
Cheers all
Cheers all
can i just point out that about the fact that laptops get moved around alot while on and spinning disks, and i have never, ever seen a scratched disk come out of a laptop because of this.
so really those people who are calling folk who move their consoles around while on are the morons!
so really those people who are calling folk who move their consoles around while on are the morons!
- guest
- Posts: 15284
- Posted on: 18 Dec 08 19:38
The sad thing about this issue is I have just purchase a console and game bumdle for my nephews for xmas, kids don't think about these sorts of issues and are the main uses of these types of device's, should have looked at paying a little more for the PS3!
Don't regret your decisions.
The Xbox 360 is a great games platform. Lots of Good Games available, and the RROD & Disc Shredders are covered by M$ warranty.
The PS3 is currently more of an Enthusiast Toy as it's a complete Entertainment package, as well as Gaming Console.
The Xbox 360 is a great games platform. Lots of Good Games available, and the RROD & Disc Shredders are covered by M$ warranty.
The PS3 is currently more of an Enthusiast Toy as it's a complete Entertainment package, as well as Gaming Console.
Please show me where disc shredder are covered in warrenty? Do you mean how I have to spend $20 to replace a game I already bought and of course the one that only Microsoft covers?
@ xbox_fail Apparently, the disc scratching problem is NOT isolated to those fools who move the unit while it's on, but also prevails on stationary systems. Microslop is an eccentric company and probably just thought there wouldn't be enough complaints to justify fixing the problem, so they evidently just said hell with it and shipped defective units from the start.
All defective hardware is covered by standard warranty within the first few years - check your local laws.
Xbox360 game discs are covered, but you have to pay $20 to have them replaced
Buy PS3 if you want a trouble free console
Xbox360 game discs are covered, but you have to pay $20 to have them replaced
Buy PS3 if you want a trouble free console
Right it should be covered but Microsoft is not repairing the units for free under the warrenty. They are charging an extra $100 for there mistake and replacing it with the same drive that could possibly cause problems. Thus the reason for the lawsuit. They are not taking care of the product they put out.
Of course they knew about the problem, they were making money off it!! $20 bucks for a replacement disc? Give me a freaking break!! MS I hope gets stuck with a big pay day for this. I hope they have to recall every single Xbox out there. Serves the SOBs right.
- guest
- Posts: 15284
- Posted on: 19 Dec 08 16:21
Discmans have been engineered for movement. A reasonable person would not expect an XBox 360 to be engineered with joggers in mind.
You can always replay a game if you NEED to move the console. While the issue of stationary scratching is a concern, moving the console while in use is just bad judgment on the user's end.
You can always replay a game if you NEED to move the console. While the issue of stationary scratching is a concern, moving the console while in use is just bad judgment on the user's end.
- guest
- Posts: 15284
- Posted on: 19 Dec 08 16:26
Your message conveniently ignores the fact that there is a reasonable expectation that a laptop is going to be moved around, bumped, jostled, and otherwise jolted.
An Xbox 360, on the other hand, is meant to be a stationary appliance.
An Xbox 360, on the other hand, is meant to be a stationary appliance.
- guest
- Posts: 15284
- Posted on: 19 Dec 08 19:37
To all as I have said in the past, make copies of all your personally owned disks, place them in a safe storage area, and play with the copies as much as you need. SlySoft really does work, and they have great tech service, have used the products since inception and never a problem, period.
i don't see how this is an excuse for damaging disks, and i was only responding to the folk who were slagging off others for moving data disk drives around while on.
and i have never damaged my ps3 while moving it while its on neither, coz i don't sit in front of it all day, and occasionally i need to leave it on while cleaning etc. this is an excuse for people who truly believe that ms can do no wrong.
this is no different to people who think sony can do no wrong also.
i was one of those people affected by DRM too.
and i have never damaged my ps3 while moving it while its on neither, coz i don't sit in front of it all day, and occasionally i need to leave it on while cleaning etc. this is an excuse for people who truly believe that ms can do no wrong.
this is no different to people who think sony can do no wrong also.
i was one of those people affected by DRM too.
yeah that sounds like a cheap and easy solution.
In the way you replied back, so rude and offensive, he is quite validated in the point that you need to grow up. Some one with any sign of maturity would have had a reasonable reply or discussion. Just because you turn 40 soon doesn't mean you've grown-up. Growing old is mandatory - growing-up is optional.
- guest
- Posts: 15284
- Posted on: 21 Dec 08 22:09
yo, this is a prob dat microsoft has dat they will fix, but y r there sooooo many hater postin comments on this. there are a hell of alot of people here who r sayin dat microsoft suks n dat its junk n stuf like dat, so then y r u readin bout da xbox if u think it suks. dont call people dat like da xbox dum cus u da one dats dum for wastin time readin n postin bout sumthin u dont like,
Wow that was full of retard
Anyway Microsoft hasn't fixed it and wont fix it so please read
Anyway Microsoft hasn't fixed it and wont fix it so please read
y dont u learn grammar b 4 start 2 right.(ok yeah, that was delibrate)
)
y dont u learn grammar b 4 start 2 right.(ok yeah, that was delibrate)
)
*Recommendation*
Guest comments off.
Guest comments off.
Yo- I L B C N U L8ter dawg! LOOOL
Wow! I bet that douche had a big dollar sign necklace made with fake diamonds around his pencil neck, three or four plastic rings he got from a gumball machine and a baseball hat set on his shaved head at some annoying off angle.
Wow! I bet that douche had a big dollar sign necklace made with fake diamonds around his pencil neck, three or four plastic rings he got from a gumball machine and a baseball hat set on his shaved head at some annoying off angle.
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