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Breakthrough on removal of Cinavia Blu-ray copy protection reported

Posted 24 November 2013 14:00 CET by Jan Willem Aldershoff

The mysterious user who recently appeared on our forums has found a working solution to bypass Cinavia. This method is verified by our resident Cinavia hunter Macrovision3500. User Cienoway first made his appearance 10 days ago and was welcomed with a lot of (healthy) skepticism. Cienoway reported he was visited by the police and has been investigating ways of publishing his method to bypass Cinavia without breaking any trade secrets.

myce-cinavia-message

 

Today Cienoway made his post stating he was able to verify his method, he wrote, “EUREKA! I have created the first audio with Cinavia rendered undetectable, and it is proven.  This proves that my methods works. I just need to refine it to make it work better. Audio quality is pretty audible, with a little bit barely noticeable artifacts.”

He went on to write, ” That was expected as the method still needs some refinement to smooth out the audio. Kudos to Macrovision, who provided excellent help to me so that I have a way of quickly verifying Cinavia removal. This is necessary to quickly learn what works and what does not work.”

According to Cienoway the method is also future proof as he states,  “the technology is defeated fundamentally on basic science. That means there is NO possibility to even repair it or tweak some parameters to make it work again.”

The Cinavia copy protection is embedded in the audiotrack of a Cinavia protected movie  Hardware and software players contain a Cinavia watermark detector  which decides if the movie is legitimate or not. While Verance, the company developing it, claims it doesn’t affect the quality of the audio, others disagree.

The degradation of the audio  is a reason to try to find a method to remove the signal from audio tracks. Another reason is that Cinavia prevents  playback of Blu-ray backups.The protection will detect playback of the backup and will mute the audio after 20 minutes while showing a Cinavia warning prompting the user to get a legal copy of the movie.

Also pirates start to encounter Cinavia more and more as it’s also designed to stop illegal movie sharing. The Cinavia detector can also be found in the next generation consoles, the Xbox One and the Playstation 4.

Read more on Cinavia in our in depth article: Ultimate Cinavia Guide: the protection that refuses to be silenced | Discuss Cinavia in our Forums

[poll id=”4″]
Zod
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 24 Nov 13 16:43
I disagree with the last line. Most people who pirate movies tend to use smaller x264 compressed files in an mkv container. They play them via a settop media box of some sort or on a computer.

I don't think physical copying of bluray discs (or downloading of them) is the common form of pirating (probably due to the 50gb size of a disc)........

it basically means cinavia is rather pointless because it's only enforced on bluray players. it only impacts the small few who download full blurays or make backups of their own. it does nothing to stop people from playing bluray rips on their various non-bluray player devices......
0 Agree

Wombler
Administrator & Reviewer
Posted on: 24 Nov 13 17:20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zod
I disagree with the last line. Most people who pirate movies tend to use smaller x264 compressed files in an mkv container. They play them via a settop media box of some sort or on a computer.

I don't think physical copying of bluray discs (or downloading of them) is the common form of pirating (probably due to the 50gb size of a disc)........

it basically means cinavia is rather pointless because it's only enforced on bluray players. it only impacts the small few who download full blurays or make backups of their own. it does nothing to stop people from playing bluray rips on their various non-bluray player devices......
Unfortunately that's no longer the case as Cinavia has recently been extended to cover most consumer devices including TVs, media streamers, and mobile devices.

If you're interested check out this recent story for further details.


Wombler
0 Agree

Cienoway
MyCE Junior Member
Posted on: 24 Nov 13 17:34
Zod:

Cinavia is NOT pointless, at least it was not.

Medias, like a new movie, is released in theaters first, and then after some time released on BluRay discs. And then further down the road released on DVDs, and so on and on. So BluRay format is the first format the general public can get the media in their hands, thus an important source of piracy. The Cinavia is currently enforces on BluRay only. But over time it may be adopted and enforced on other media forms as well.

I am glad I can put an end to that future evolution of Cinavia, by showing to the world it is a useless and totally pointless technology with childish and jokingly lacking security. I understand and sympathize with the content providers' wish to protect their intellectual properties against illegal copying. But it must be done in the right, correct way, and must not harm legitimate purchase users. By rendering an inherently weak and useless technology like Cinavia worthless, I do a great service to the general media technology community by encouraging the development of better solutions and promote technology progresses.
0 Agree

CDan
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 24 Nov 13 17:57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombler
Unfortunately that's no longer the case as Cinavia has recently been extended to cover most consumer devices including TVs, media streamers, and mobile devices.

If you're interested check out this recent story for further details.


Wombler

This is a pretty misleading statement. Verance is marketing Cinavia protection to makers of other devices. That's a LONG way from it actually being adopted. But its the content providers that would use it, or not, and pay hefty fees for doing so. So, not only does Verance have to convince hardware makers to adopt Cinavia detection, they then have to sell it to the content providers.
0 Agree

Wombler
Administrator & Reviewer
Posted on: 24 Nov 13 20:43
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDan
This is a pretty misleading statement. Verance is marketing Cinavia protection to makers of other devices. That's a LONG way from it actually being adopted. But its the content providers that would use it, or not, and pay hefty fees for doing so. So, not only does Verance have to convince hardware makers to adopt Cinavia detection, they then have to sell it to the content providers.
Granted it hasn't been adopted yet but it's more than marketing.

The key thing here is that Verance is pushing this technology in the same way that successfully secured its inclusion in the AACS standards.

I wouldn't like to bet on them not having a similar financially persuasive argument that would also sway hardware manufacturers.


Wombler
0 Agree

CDan
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 24 Nov 13 22:07
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombler
Granted it hasn't been adopted yet but it's more than marketing.

The key thing here is that Verance is pushing this technology in the same way that successfully secured its inclusion in the AACS standards.

I wouldn't like to bet on them not having a similar financially persuasive argument that would also sway hardware manufacturers.


Wombler

Maybe, maybe not. Cinavia exists because of Sony and the BDA. The BDA has no stake or influence in the rest of it beyond its own members' interests. It wouldn't surprise me to see other devices enforcing Cinavia in content that's sourced from BD, IOW people playing MKV files from BD movies on other devices. But still that's only Sony releases being affected. No other studio has signed up to pay for Cinavia protection. I don't expect that to change unless Verance decides to drastically cut the costs for studios. People don't seem to be grasping the fact that Cinavia protection is massively expensive for studios to use. Its pretty doubtful that any other content source besides BD would be able to pay for the Cinavia licensing costs. Verance has no leverage by itself, and there's no financial incentive for anyone to use Cinavia protection on their content. That doesn't stop Sony however.
0 Agree

Seán
Senior Administrator & Reviewer
Posted on: 24 Nov 13 22:20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombler
The key thing here is that Verance is pushing this technology in the same way that successfully secured its inclusion in the AACS standards.

I wouldn't like to bet on them not having a similar financially persuasive argument that would also sway hardware manufacturers.
The best example I can think of is Macrovision. Every DVD recorder and digital video capture device I've come across detects Macrovision.

With one video capture device I reviewed several years ago, the Macrovision detection was so sensitive that a noisy source would easily trip the detection (bottom of this page).

On the other hand, as the watermark detection is done through audio, it does make removal a lot easier, since processing and recompressing an audio track takes a lot less processing power and time than dealing with a video watermark. Plus, should this protection ever be enforced on TVs, just route the audio through an amplifier instead.

On the other hand, phones and tablets are a little more complicated, especially if playing a stream from an unofficial source that turns out to be watermarked, e.g. YouTube clip using watermark-protected audio. So in future, could end up having dual-purpose custom firmwares for handheld devices - Root access and removal of watermark detection.
0 Agree

TSJnachos117
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 25 Nov 13 02:11
IDK about the rest of you, but I don't foresee players like VLC, MPlayer, or Media Player Classic (or and derivitive player) becomming cinivia-friendly, as that goes against the pilosophy of virtually every FOSS program out there. One can easily bet that pirates will eventually figure out that these players will play MKV files just fine. And for those that want to use a propriatery program, I'm sure there's some cracked version out there, just waiting to be pirated by the masses.

So, I doubt cinivia will become a threat to anyone wishing to use anything other than a BD player to watch movies. Of course, there's still the issue of the content makers themselves, as I'm sure they'll try to kill these programs in the future (by means of manipulating big brother). Even so, with any luck, these efforts will suffer the same fate as SOPA/PIPA: killed by mass-internet protests.
0 Agree

debro
Blown to smitherines
Posted on: 25 Nov 13 11:02
I dont understand the incentive for hardware manufacturers to implement cinavia. It makes their products less compatible with what consumers want to display on their tv.

With the understanding that cinavia was foisted upon the bluray standard, thanks to Sony being one of the larger contributers/licensers of bluray.

Somehow, I suspect that any tvs and audio systems that implement cinavia will earn themselves Turkey of the year award, and be shunned by consumers.
0 Agree

ChristineBCW
CE Freak
Posted on: 25 Nov 13 12:23
Deb, I don't understand either. I never understood why studios allowed a short-term bribe to sign exclusively with Sony and BluRay, though. Obviously, there was a larger cost in manufacturing two formats of next-gen home-video disks, but Sony's long-time reputation for increasing license-fees over time surely was the exact counter-balance to receiving some front-end payoff to join them.

But we're stuck with BluRay. I didn't understand THAT incentive either. So as unbelievably dumb as paying for Cinavia licensing is, I suspect some executive's bonus comes thru and he affixes his signature. His balloon drifts off into Oz or wherever and he's happy.

Personally, I'm waiting for the telecoms to decide that any audio or video that transmits thru their cell-towers becomes their copyrightable material, and thus we're subjected to their new licensing fees. And Cinavia can chop us off like old-time long-distance operators used to. "We did it then, we can do it again!"
0 Agree

Wombler
Administrator & Reviewer
Posted on: 25 Nov 13 13:36
Quote:
Originally Posted by debro
I dont understand the incentive for hardware manufacturers to implement cinavia. It makes their products less compatible with what consumers want to display on their tv.

With the understanding that cinavia was foisted upon the bluray standard, thanks to Sony being one of the larger contributers/licensers of bluray.

Somehow, I suspect that any tvs and audio systems that implement cinavia will earn themselves Turkey of the year award, and be shunned by consumers.
It's worth remembering though that the AACS Consortium includes some of the biggest electronics manufacturers (Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc) and that they may already have a vested interest in supporting this initiative.


Wombler
0 Agree

cholla
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 25 Nov 13 17:44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombler
It's worth remembering though that the AACS Consortium includes some of the biggest electronics manufacturers (Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc) and that they may already have a vested interest in supporting this initiative.


Wombler
A hardware manufacturer not willing to use the standards can't legally manufacture the drives .
The same thing has applied to DVD drives for various standards the owners of the patents imposed through their associations.
Blu-Ray drives are the same . So manufactures only have two choices .
Manufacture the drives & agree or don't & maybe go out of business.
0 Agree

Wombler
Administrator & Reviewer
Posted on: 25 Nov 13 18:11
Quote:
Originally Posted by cholla
A hardware manufacturer not willing to use the standards can't legally manufacture the drives .
The same thing has applied to DVD drives for various standards the owners of the patents imposed through their associations.
Blu-Ray drives are the same . So manufactures only have two choices .
Manufacture the drives & agree or don't & maybe go out of business.
Yes exactly.

These things are forced on manufacturers if the organisations concerned manage to get them adopted as part of the standards and it's a pretty safe bet that Verance are pushing very strongly in this direction ATM.


Wombler
0 Agree

ChristineBCW
CE Freak
Posted on: 25 Nov 13 18:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombler
These things are forced on manufacturers...
Except, uh, the organizations ARE the manufacturers.

http://www.noiselabs.com/blog/images/blazingSaddles.jpg
"Do what dey say, do what dey say!!"

There IS one motivation for this. "Prevent membership. We'll put our own gun to our heads because THIS prevents anyone else from joining our manufacturing club!"

Then, they're whining about declining sales:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gMVO64rZkA...addles-655.jpg

I keep thinking of the old Bond axiom: Why oh why didn't Blofeld just pull the trigger ONCE?!! "Just shoot him. End of tale."
0 Agree

Zod
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 26 Nov 13 06:41
I also don't see set top media boxes incorporating cinevia. Those boxes are quite often used for playing copied content. Any manufactuer who added it to their set top box would loose credibility and people wouldn't buy it.

It's forced on bluray players. Sony won't grant a bluray license unless you incorporate it in. Media boxes don't need a bluray license. There's no motivation to add it in.
0 Agree

dubstepmaster90
New Member
Posted on: 17 Jan 14 10:25
to be honest why worry about it.just find a bluray player from when they first came out and it wont affect it.even with cinavia on it.they didnt even add it till about the third production of them.i tested that myself and would bet my life against that.
0 Agree

halfwayman
New Member
Posted on: 19 Apr 14 13:14
This is really good news.
0 Agree

bobakazooboy
New Member
Posted on: 19 Apr 14 23:50
I hate this Cinavia
0 Agree

ILLP
MyCE Senior Member
Posted on: 20 Apr 14 07:04
Do you people posting in this thread know that the article was posted last year check out the dvd copy section and get up to date or search Dvd-ranger.
0 Agree

cholla
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 20 Apr 14 15:13
@ ILLP , Posts like the recent ones are just to get the minimum two posts required to view images & other attachments. They have no interest in the subject of the thread. Just ignore them.
0 Agree

hogger129
MyCE Member
Posted on: 27 Apr 14 02:18
I am going to call BS on Cinavia being defeated. So far, I've not heard of anyone removing its watermark. The only way 'around' it is to use hardware that doesn't support Cinavia.
0 Agree

thor21344
MyCE Rookie
Posted on: 27 Apr 14 06:01
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogger129
I am going to call BS on Cinavia being defeated. So far, I've not heard of anyone removing its watermark. The only way 'around' it is to use hardware that doesn't support Cinavia.
Appearently you have not heard of DVD Ranger cinex hd,. It works for me and several hundred other people
0 Agree

hogger129
MyCE Member
Posted on: 27 Apr 14 10:04
Quote:
Originally Posted by thor21344
Appearently you have not heard of DVD Ranger cinex hd,. It works for me and several hundred other people
How does it know where the watermark is every time?
0 Agree

thor21344
MyCE Rookie
Posted on: 27 Apr 14 23:09
Probley that is why it took two years and a lot of programming time, and a lot of not quiet there programs, and a court fight with Sony and all of that other stuff. Not going to get into a P****** contest about this, Either believe or don't, That is why GOD gave you free will.

NUFF SAID


Marty
0 Agree

ILLP
MyCE Senior Member
Posted on: 27 Apr 14 23:19
No problem for me and Cinavia any longer My Sony PS3 back ups and video files that I have done with CinEX work great no more mute error messages and the sound is great.
0 Agree

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