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Discussion: fast write speed on DVD burners a gimmick?

Posted at 31 July 2009 15:27 CEST by Robin van Lieshout

Our well respected Senior Administrator and Reviewer, Dee, has written a review on the Lite-On iHAS324 DVD Writer. She gave the drive a “Safe Buy” award and concluded “Good feature set and not too many negative points, the Lite-On iHAS324 is generally an excellent drive”.

LiteOnBox

The drive burns at 24x speed, which is only slightly faster than other drives writing at, for example, 18x or 20x speed. Is writing at 24x therefore a gimmick, or do we really need it?

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There are 18 comments

Danothehippy
New on Forum
Posted on: 31 Jul 09 19:10
    I find that a slower burn seems to always give a better result ! So if you are not in a hurry and don't want to waste discs, burn slower !!!
    will1644
    New on Forum
    Posted on: 31 Jul 09 19:18
      Any review which highlights DVD write speeds without also discussing error rates is largely a waste of space and ink and is not worth much attention.
      MysticEyes
      MyCE Resident
      Posted on: 31 Jul 09 19:29
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Danothehippy
        I find that a slower burn seems to always give a better result ! So if you are not in a hurry and don't want to waste discs, burn slower !!!
        You sure? Anything to back that up?

        Here's some scans of 8X TYG02s burned at 12X in my Pioneer 115D.

        http://file.walagata.com/w/mysticx/115D_TYG02_12n.jpg


        Here's some elses scan of a 16X TYG03 burned at 4X in a well reviewed LG.

        http://file.walagata.com/w/mysticx/L...20_1.00_4X.png
        jubjubbird
        MyCE Resident
        Posted on: 31 Jul 09 19:38
          It is a gimmick. It's a headline for marketing the product. Most people always want the latest and greatest thing, and are prepared to pay the price for One-upmanship.

          If these companies were serious about having an industry standard write speed over 16x, they would be working with the media manufacturers to get the media rated higher.

          Pushing discs to these speeds are pushing the boundaries of the forces the discs can sustain. Generally (I'm not saying it's always the case) media burns better closer to it's rated speed, and for the sake of shaving a few seconds off the burn time, I think it's a bit silly.

          I'd be happy with an error free 24x read!
          omegaman7769
          MyCE Member
          Posted on: 31 Jul 09 19:40
            I wouldn't say ALWAYS burn slow. I've found that my TYG03(Taiyo Yuden -R) media burns quite well at 12X and 16X. And i've had good results at 18X as well. I don't think however that any burner is ready for 24X or more. The error rates would be too high. Even on Optiarc. 24X is currently just too risky for critical data. If people are too impatient to go with an 8X 12X burn, thats their problem Im not saying it will never happen though. I remember when I burned cds at 8X. Now I burn them at 24X confidently, which is plenty fast enough. Drives are just not ready for that. TYG03 is ready, the drives are not. With Sata Rev3 right around the corner, it shouldnt be long I suppose they gotta get the product out there for testing though....Grumble grumble
            Danothehippy
            New on Forum
            Posted on: 31 Jul 09 20:04
              That's what I meant. 12x-16x. Not 2x or 4x.
              omegaman7769
              MyCE Member
              Posted on: 31 Jul 09 20:16
                Oh, I see

                Yah, 4X is MUCH too slow LOL
                abnranger76
                New on Forum
                Posted on: 31 Jul 09 20:17
                  All the write speeds are a gimmick! They only write at that speed rated on the outside ring, as the writer starts from the inside substantially slower. (this is using the CAV writing method which allows manufactures to claim faster speeds).
                  It's like the Hard-drive companies rating the size of the drive as 1kb=1000 bits instead of the true 1024bits. This makes the disk rated larger then it actually is,
                  1TB=875GB (true size).
                  Manufacturers get away with it because we as consumers let them.

                  RLTW
                  abnranger76
                  Crabbyappleton
                  MyCE Resident
                  Posted on: 31 Jul 09 20:59
                    I pay more attention to read speed.

                    I like to rip my movies or music to my network or even any HDD or a portable player like my Sansa - iPod etc. I only just occasionally write to a optical disc. I have autobackup so I don't worrry about data loss. So, I want a drive that rips fast. I find for storing or portability, that thumb drives blow a optical out of the water or large HDD for archiving is better for that now. Not to mention web storage for remote access etc.

                    I even put my Win 7 installation copy on a thumb drive. It cut the heck out of the time it took to install the RC on my Netbook, Desktop and HTPC.
                    Dee
                    Senior Administrator and Reviewer
                    Posted on: 31 Jul 09 21:12
                      The statement that 22x - 24x is a gimmick should have probably started with the advent of 20x writers, but was somehow overlooked because i guess that most of us were caught up in the technology required to burn at this speed.

                      But why 20x?
                      At 20x writing speed an important milestone was reached and it has never been taken advantage of.

                      To burn a disc at 20x or faster, the rotational speed of the drive is enough to start the burn speed at 8x. Now suddenly there is an opportunity to have a true 8x burn speed (8x CLV). There is also an opportunity to burn at 12x and 16x using a fast 12x/16x P-CAV writing strategy, starting the burn at 8x instead of around 6x.

                      That could have been implemented for all media that was able to burn at these speeds, rather than just 1 DVD+R and 1 DVD-R, and drastically cut the writing time at 12x and 16x, not to mention a drastic cut in the time taken to burn a media at 8x with an 8x CLV writing strategy.

                      This for sure would give better results than burning at 24x.

                      Now let's look at the technology required to burn at 20x and above.
                      Each speed hike perhaps requires a new spindle and motor, a new chipset, and possibly a new laser. All for just two media.

                      That technology would have been better served to all customers if they implemented a fast P-CAV writing strategy for all 12x and 16x burns, and an 8x CLV writing strategy for 8x. It hasn't been done, and that is why i say that 20x, 22x, and now 24x is just a gimmick, because they could have done a lot more as explained above, but only done enough to put a 20x, 22x or 24x sticker on the box.
                      steven2874
                      MyCE Resident
                      Posted on: 01 Aug 09 00:12
                        Well stated, Dee. You make some valid points. I like burning for fun @ 24X and creating a disc in under 4:00 minutes. Not that it serves any great purpose but it is a challenge to see how quickly a disc can be written. It's a "gimmick" I enjoy.
                        DrageMester
                        Retired Moderator
                        Posted on: 01 Aug 09 03:05
                          I agree with everything Dee says in post #11.

                          I would add that increasing the possbile write speed on a drive in a way, that doesn't maintain an acceptable burn quality, is worse than a gimmick - it's a big disservice to normal users, who burn at the default speed which is almost always the same as maximum speed.

                          If drive manufacturers come up with drives that burn significantly faster (on quality media) in a safe way, then I would consider it a step forward and not a gimmick (or worse).

                          For now, I see the 18X -> 20x -> 22x -> 24x ... race as nothing more than marketing.

                          Some brands (*cough*LiteOn*cough*) are even developing drives which are slower at burning for the safer burning speeds 8x/12x than previous generation drives!
                          omegaman7769
                          MyCE Member
                          Posted on: 01 Aug 09 06:47
                            This is a burn from my best Samsung drive. It has produced the best TYG03 Watershield burns ive seen yet, at 16X speeds to boot! This was burned at 22X Im not sure what happened toward the end. Thank goodness I always pay attention to default burn speeds!!! No doubt this disc is NOT playable LOL! It almost sounded like the burner fowled up. The Rpms began going up down up down up down rapidly!
                            Seán
                            Senior Administrator & Reviewer
                            Posted on: 01 Aug 09 13:21
                              As I always burn with verification, one big improvement I would like to see instead is faster read speed. As far as I'm aware of, all 18x-24x DVD writers read DVD+/-R's at 16x max, so while the write speed may be quicker, it still takes just as long during the verification stage!

                              For example, I would be happier with a DVD writer that wrote at 16x and read back at 24x, as it would likely give the same write+verification time as this drive, while also being more compatible with the 16x write speed of most media.
                              DrageMester
                              Retired Moderator
                              Posted on: 01 Aug 09 13:28
                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by Seán
                                As I always burn with verification, one big improvement I would like to see instead is faster read speed. As far as I'm aware of, all 18x-24x DVD writers read DVD+/-R's at 16x max, so while the write speed may be quicker, it still takes just as long during the verification stage!
                                I also verify almost everything I burn, making the burn+verify time much more important than the burn time alone.
                                negritude
                                MyCE Resident
                                Posted on: 01 Aug 09 22:48
                                  Dee already nailed it. It's nothing more than a marketing gimmick.

                                  1. There is no 18x, 20x, 22x, or 24x certified media. The manufacturers of SL media are speaking loud and clear in this area. They know that faster burning is mostly insane, and that the R&D costs to develop new media and codes is not worth the investment. They've moved on to Blu-Ray.

                                  2. Of the 16x medias that can be burned at 18x-24x, such as Verbatim, Taiyo Yuden, and Maxell MIJ, only Verbatim is widely and easily available, or even known to the general public. The average person doesn't know what TY is, and MIJ Maxell is only available in Europe or if available elsewhere, is super-expensive because you have to buy the premium grades. So, Verbatim is the only universal choice.

                                  3. The amount of time saved by burning at 24x as compared to 16x is insignificant, and, as was pointed out, for those of us who auto-verify, the lack of better default read speeds squanders an opportunity for a much safer way to save overall "burning" time.

                                  4. In addition to Dee's point about ways to save time by using faster CLV or P-CAV strategies with 16x and slower speeds, the most egregious failure on the part of drive manufacturers is their seeming indifference to improving the writing quality at any speed. The drives get "faster", but they burn like crap. The real innovations in quality burning that we experienced during the heyday of BenQ and Plextor are now distant memories, as the focus is now all on so-called speed. The only drive maker that has truly impressed me of late has been Optiarc, as their AD-724x line has made a giant leap ahead in DL burning quality. Why can't the others do the same?
                                  Akhil Tayal
                                  New on Forum
                                  Posted on: 05 Aug 09 18:08
                                    This is Ok.
                                    vroom
                                    Administrator and Reviewer
                                    Posted on: 05 Aug 09 18:49
                                      Quote:
                                      Originally Posted by Dee
                                      The statement that 22x - 24x is a gimmick should have probably started with the advent of 20x writers, but was somehow overlooked because i guess that most of us were caught up in the technology required to burn at this speed.

                                      But why 20x?
                                      At 20x writing speed an important milestone was reached and it has never been taken advantage of.

                                      To burn a disc at 20x or faster, the rotational speed of the drive is enough to start the burn speed at 8x. Now suddenly there is an opportunity to have a true 8x burn speed (8x CLV). There is also an opportunity to burn at 12x and 16x using a fast 12x/16x P-CAV writing strategy, starting the burn at 8x instead of around 6x.

                                      That could have been implemented for all media that was able to burn at these speeds, rather than just 1 DVD+R and 1 DVD-R, and drastically cut the writing time at 12x and 16x, not to mention a drastic cut in the time taken to burn a media at 8x with an 8x CLV writing strategy.

                                      This for sure would give better results than burning at 24x.

                                      Now let's look at the technology required to burn at 20x and above.
                                      Each speed hike perhaps requires a new spindle and motor, a new chipset, and possibly a new laser. All for just two media.

                                      That technology would have been better served to all customers if they implemented a fast P-CAV writing strategy for all 12x and 16x burns, and an 8x CLV writing strategy for 8x. It hasn't been done, and that is why i say that 20x, 22x, and now 24x is just a gimmick, because they could have done a lot more as explained above, but only done enough to put a 20x, 22x or 24x sticker on the box.

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