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Metro mandatory: Windows 8 start menu source code to be removed

Posted 11 June 2012 12:18 CET by Jan Willem Aldershoff

Recently, we reported how you could bring back the old Start menu in Windows 8 or at least mimic it, to use it  instead of the new Metro interface. But according to Microsoft expert Paul Thurrot this won’t be possible in the final release. It was thought that Microsoft would make it possible for businesses to configure Windows 8 with the Start menu or to boot to the usual desktop interface. This would make it possible to run both Windows 7 and Windows 8 in the same company as they were pretty much similar in looks and work flow.

Unfortunately  Thurrot reports that he received information from anonymous insiders that the actual code for the Start menu and the desktop interface will  be removed from the final source code as he writes; ” my sources at Microsoft tell me it’s been busy ripping out legacy code for the old Start button and Start Menu so that developers won’t be able to write utilities that bring those features back. And boot to the desktop? Forget about it.”

This means all Windows 8 users will be forced to use the Metro interface which should replace the functionality of the old Start menu, whether you like it or not…

Wombler
Administrator & Reviewer
Posted on: 11 Jun 12 10:55
Wow, that's a bit of a kick in the teeth from Microsoft!

That kind of kills it as a viable choice for me.


Wombler
0 Agree

debro
Blown to smitherines
Posted on: 11 Jun 12 11:03
I'm already using libre office at work, and have installed it for everyone else, and slowly peppering our little office with odf format documents to slowly introduce libreoffice to other people.

I use libreoffice at home and so does my wife.
As it stands, we both have android tablets which we use 90% of the time for everything, and laptops for the remainder. I dual boot with ubuntu, but keep windows for work programs.

I'm considering installing Ubuntu for her. She G-mails, plays movies, listens to music, writes libre office documents, connects to our openmediavault server.
We really don't need anything microsoft anymore .

Windows 8 makes me realise how divergent Microsoft really is to what the world wants/needs.

Something business people realise is that you are only as good as your last job/product.

Microsofts established userbase is being eroded, and they really don't have the luxury of experimenting with enforced useless interfaces.

This really is the beginning of the end for M$.
0 Agree

Seán
Senior Administrator & Reviewer
Posted on: 11 Jun 12 11:37
I will be very surprised if Windows 8 does as well as Vista did.

Another problem I see is that whatever comes after Windows 8 is unlikely to include a start menu either. Vista did poorly mainly due to its clumsiness, stability (prior to SP2) and PC makers shipping it on under-powered hardware with far too little RAM.

With Windows 8, the main hardware issue will be the legacy mouse and I somehow doubt that people are suddenly going to give up their trusty mouse for touch-screens. Hasn't Microsoft heard of "Gorilla Arm"?
0 Agree

Wombler
Administrator & Reviewer
Posted on: 11 Jun 12 12:04
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seán
Hasn't Microsoft heard of "Gorilla Arm"?
They may well have heard of it Seán but it doesn't look like they're paying it much attention.


Wombler
0 Agree

olddancer
MyCE Senior Member
Posted on: 11 Jun 12 18:47
If you have any stock in Microsloth, dump it now!
I'd rather use ME (another blazing success for Microsoft) than have Metro forced upon me.
It might be "Neet" for the brainless under 30 crowd but those of us in Business are going to tell Gates exactly where to put Win 8, sideways and without lubricant!
0 Agree

Kerry56
Administrator
Posted on: 11 Jun 12 19:23
Perhaps you should look at it in another perspective. Windows 7 is finally moving business off of XP in large numbers. Win 7 is stable, well liked, has good driver support, and has a interface that is easily learned by the millions who have been using Windows in business environments since Win 95 debuted. This is the operating system that Microsoft expects business to use now and for the foreseeable future for desktops and laptops, perhaps even to its end of life in 2020.

But anyone who is looking ahead in computer trends knows that we are gradually moving to more portable devices for many of the day to day tasks, slightly more in home use now, but it is also becoming a force in business environments as well. Microsoft has to do something to make themselves relevant in this newer market, and Windows 8 and Windows RT are their solutions for this. By giving users an interim operating system that will work on both their older systems and in the new portables that are being developed, Microsoft hopes to remain dominant and offer their customers some hands on experience using this new type of interface.

As we become more accustomed to the touch screen interface in portables, and learn how to use the desktop within Win8 with more traditional mouse and keyboard, Microsoft intends to wean us off the older style and be ready in 2015 for Win9, which I predict will again look nothing at all like Win7 and the traditional MS operating systems of the past.

Personally, I don't like the looks of Metro in the slightest, and wouldn't have much use for it on my desktops. I doubt I will stray from Win7 without some major inducement...say $50 for an upgrade version of Win8. And even then it better have some major improvements under the hood to make me endure Metro.

But if we are considering tablets only, I think Microsoft's new operating system might tempt me to dip into those waters. But they will have to compete with Android in price and features of the hardware. Microsoft is somewhat at the mercy of their hardware partners in this.
0 Agree

coolcolors
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 12 Jun 12 14:10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry56
Perhaps you should look at it in another perspective. Windows 7 is finally moving business off of XP in large numbers. Win 7 is stable, well liked, has good driver support, and has a interface that is easily learned by the millions who have been using Windows in business environments since Win 95 debuted. This is the operating system that Microsoft expects business to use now and for the foreseeable future for desktops and laptops, perhaps even to its end of life in 2020..
Yes they are moving to it because of SP1 not because they have to upgrading has a big downside COST..but it does have a big Benefit of being newer and able to be truly multuser access like Unix with one Admin and many users accounts something which XP had problems doing that actually works.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry56
But anyone who is looking ahead in computer trends knows that we are gradually moving to more portable devices for many of the day to day tasks, slightly more in home use now, but it is also becoming a force in business environments as well. Microsoft has to do something to make themselves relevant in this newer market, and Windows 8 and Windows RT are their solutions for this. By giving users an interim operating system that will work on both their older systems and in the new portables that are being developed, Microsoft hopes to remain dominant and offer their customers some hands on experience using this new type of interface. .

Trends are trends but not everyone can afford such devices or need or have to weigh their cost and benefits will they get much in return or do they even really need it? People now days have so much gadgets and yet when the battery or dies they become zombies and can't do much anything else. We are so stuck to our devices we forgot how to communicate by land line and letters or face to face meetings or emails aka that still exists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry56
As we become more accustomed to the touch screen interface in portables, and learn how to use the desktop within Win8 with more traditional mouse and keyboard, Microsoft intends to wean us off the older style and be ready in 2015 for Win9, which I predict will again look nothing at all like Win7 and the traditional MS operating systems of the past..
That will be in the eye of the beholder.....Once your touch screen no longer register any touch what will you do then??? The good old mouse and keyboard that is what....having a backup is a good alternative to something that can fail whenever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry56
Personally, I don't like the looks of Metro in the slightest, and wouldn't have much use for it on my desktops. I doubt I will stray from Win7 without some major inducement...say $50 for an upgrade version of Win8. And even then it better have some major improvements under the hood to make me endure Metro..

I double that more with a passion...is it so hard to listen to legitiment customer concerns and make a O/S that address their concerns and not your bottom line figures???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry56
But if we are considering tablets only, I think Microsoft's new operating system might tempt me to dip into those waters. But they will have to compete with Android in price and features of the hardware. Microsoft is somewhat at the mercy of their hardware partners in this.
Tablets only are a niche market just like smartphone is a niche market. You will never have the retail space a laptop or desktop in screen quality or visual aspects. Lugging around a 20 tablet isn't what I call a fun day at the office. And also those system are limited in what they store and can offer when you need programs on demand and don't need connections to do so as they come with full programs and can do more then just text and video chat as laptop can program anaylse webchat and video out something a tablet or Ipad can't do or have the power to do. Sure the tablets and Ipad can do similiar but those system come with trade-offs with laptops being the weight that is the big concerns. I may be out of the main stream but they way I see it is Tablets and Ipad are just a niche market and just like laptop and desktop are but they reason laptops and desktop still exist is because they will always be there remember all those tablets and Ipad need a laptop or desktop to program and design them....tablets and Ipad don't design themselves...
0 Agree

Zod
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 00:14
Windows 8 seems to be trying to capture two different devices with the same OS.

It might be good for tablets, but I think MS is alienating their bread and butter. IE the PC users.

Metro isn't very PC friendly. Most people have decently sized screesns with a mouse/keyboard combo.

Surely MS could of put out different editions of Windows 8. A tablet edition and a PC edition.

I tried out the release candidate. Metro might be cool on a tablet but I don't like it all for the PC. I find myself trying to find ways to circumvent it.

I really think Microsoft missed the ball one this one. Abandoning the PC market (in which they have a huge presence) for a unproven tablet market.

I'm not sure what to think.
0 Agree

Zzyzxroad
MyCE Senior Member
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 11:22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zod

Surely MS could of put out different editions of Windows 8. A tablet edition and a PC edition.
.
Exactly. How difficult could it be.
0 Agree

Liggy
Senior Administrator
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 12:26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zzyzxroad
Exactly. How difficult could it be.
Must be very difficult - considering the fact that the code for a startmenu already exists

What I heard from my boss who recently visited Microsoft is that "the border belongs to the user - not the OS"
0 Agree

MJPollard
MyCE Junior Member
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 16:10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liggy
What I heard from my boss who recently visited Microsoft is that "the border belongs to the user - not the OS"
More like, "intelligence belongs to the user, not to Microsoft," and they're proving it day after day.
0 Agree

Liggy
Senior Administrator
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 16:31
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJPollard
More like, "intelligence belongs to the user, not to Microsoft," and they're proving it day after day.


Waiting for a more thorough discussion about this topic with her. She got "Windows 8 on a USB key" from that meeting. She was not too negative about it. And I agree that Metro could potentially be a good user interface - but not when using mouse and keyboard, but only if you have a touchscreen and probably not too many people have that
0 Agree

Wombler
Administrator & Reviewer
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 18:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liggy


Waiting for a more thorough discussion about this topic with her. She got "Windows 8 on a USB key" from that meeting. She was not too negative about it. And I agree that Metro could potentially be a good user interface - but not when using mouse and keyboard, but only if you have a touchscreen and probably not too many people have that
Yeah it's 'horses for courses' as we say and in a way I think Microsoft is kind of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole if they're not providing an alternative for desktop users.


Wombler
0 Agree

Bunny
MyCE Junior Member
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 20:25
Something tells me M$ will not care much for PC users if they can sell millions of copies of Windows 8 on tablets and Ultrabooks.
0 Agree

Liggy
Senior Administrator
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 21:50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunny
Something tells me M$ will not care much for PC users if they can sell millions of copies of Windows 8 on tablets and Ultrabooks.
They will even sell millions of Windows 8 copies for PCs - bundled with every new PC.
0 Agree

Seán
Senior Administrator & Reviewer
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 22:04
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liggy
They will even sell millions of Windows 8 copies for PCs - bundled with every new PC.
Plus their "(Company) recommends Windows 8" banners and logos everywhere and shop staff paid to push it upon unsuspecting users.

On the other hand, this might have a side-effect of keeping Windows 8 piracy rates down. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft will brag about Windows 8 having the lowest ever piracy rates of any Windows OS by ignoring the fact that pirates don't want it either.
0 Agree

Dee
Senior Administrator and Reviewer
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 22:39
^
^^
In this case, I'm so glad I never buy a pre-built PC.
0 Agree

Zzyzxroad
MyCE Senior Member
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 23:28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee
^
^^
In this case, I'm so glad I never buy a pre-built PC.
That shouldn't matter. I bought a laptop with Vista pre-installed. I didn't even turn it on before installing XP onto it.
0 Agree

olddancer
MyCE Senior Member
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 23:53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liggy
They will even sell millions of Windows 8 copies for PCs - bundled with every new PC.
Looks like we Techs will have an abundance of work again.
Removing the virus (Win 8) from your shiney new PC and installing a
sensible, funtional OS. Linux

Format C:, insert Linux disk, start working.
0 Agree

CharmedonWB
MyCE Member
Posted on: 13 Jun 12 23:59
I heard this same nonsense with the release of Vista. After Vista MS will not have another customer to buy the next OS. Heard the same exact nonsense when MS introduced the ribbon interface in Office. People will either deal with the Metro interface and get used to it or they will hate it, rebel against it and MS will make changes accordingly. W7 is the direct result of all the fuss over Vista. All multinational corporations are greedy and none of them care about the consumer and yet MS is always looked upon as the Evil Empire as if Apple or any other company is any better. No one is forcing anyone to buy Windows 8. If you don't like it don't buy it. If you have criticisms then keep them constructive and perhaps post solutions to problems. Being sarcastic and whining like five year olds does nothing to solve a problem.
0 Agree

~Jethro~
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 14 Jun 12 00:55
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharmedonWB
I heard this same nonsense with the release of Vista. After Vista MS will not have another customer to buy the next OS. Heard the same exact nonsense when MS introduced the ribbon interface in Office. People will either deal with the Metro interface and get used to it or they will hate it, rebel against it and MS will make changes accordingly. W7 is the direct result of all the fuss over Vista. All multinational corporations are greedy and none of them care about the consumer and yet MS is always looked upon as the Evil Empire as if Apple or any other company is any better. No one is forcing anyone to buy Windows 8. If you don't like it don't buy it. If you have criticisms then keep them constructive and perhaps post solutions to problems. Being sarcastic and whining like five year olds does nothing to solve a problem.
Who is whining?
0 Agree

darwin03
MyCE Junior Member
Posted on: 14 Jun 12 03:29
Just make a start menu Toolbar which links to the Programs and Games Folders in the start menu folder as I find it quicker and easier to use than the Start Menu in win 7.
But I agree that MS is stupid if they don't leave the Start Menu as an option to use instead of Metro, after trying Win 8 for a day I don't think I will be upgrading,
0 Agree

HVD-Disc
New Member
Posted on: 14 Jun 12 10:08
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zzyzxroad
That shouldn't matter. I bought a laptop with Vista pre-installed. I didn't even turn it on before installing XP onto it.
I admit, I did this also. This also has another advantage - Gets rid of all the manufacturer's preloaded junk and thus an even faster laptop.
0 Agree

coolcolors
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 14 Jun 12 13:33
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharmedonWB
I heard this same nonsense with the release of Vista. After Vista MS will not have another customer to buy the next OS. Heard the same exact nonsense when MS introduced the ribbon interface in Office. People will either deal with the Metro interface and get used to it or they will hate it, rebel against it and MS will make changes accordingly. W7 is the direct result of all the fuss over Vista. All multinational corporations are greedy and none of them care about the consumer and yet MS is always looked upon as the Evil Empire as if Apple or any other company is any better. No one is forcing anyone to buy Windows 8. If you don't like it don't buy it. If you have criticisms then keep them constructive and perhaps post solutions to problems. Being sarcastic and whining like five year olds does nothing to solve a problem.
Let's take a look again...no one if forcing yet right like you don't buy you don't get to use...And that isn't forcing enough?? You either buy W8 or you don't get to use the software that is basic knowledge. W7 rebel or not actually came as results of M$ debacle with Vista good or bad W7 was the next results because of it.
0 Agree

coolcolors
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 14 Jun 12 13:34
Quote:
Originally Posted by HVD-Disc
I admit, I did this also. This also has another advantage - Gets rid of all the manufacturer's preloaded junk and thus an even faster laptop.
Least not forget get the right Drivers otherwise your system won't work....
0 Agree

WTexSkeptic
MyCE Rookie
Posted on: 14 Jun 12 15:03
Man, same sort of complaints all over the net, and most haven't even tried to use Metro yet. People just fraid of change.

Change she is coming whether you like it or not. Stick with Win 7 till that horse drops, or switch to Macs. Either way, don't think you gonna get much satisfaction outta MS on any new operating systems they make.
0 Agree

Liggy
Senior Administrator
Posted on: 14 Jun 12 15:24
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTexSkeptic
Man, same sort of complaints all over the net, and most haven't even tried to use Metro yet.
I have tried it and in my opinion Metro is an epic fail if you don't have a touchscreen.
0 Agree

MJPollard
MyCE Junior Member
Posted on: 14 Jun 12 18:22
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTexSkeptic
Man, same sort of complaints all over the net, and most haven't even tried to use Metro yet.
On the contrary, I've used it, and my opinion hasn't changed: Metro sucks, and the fact that it now can't be turned off makes it suck even harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTexSkeptic
People just fraid of change.
Wrong. People know sh*t when they see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTexSkeptic
Change she is coming whether you like it or not. Stick with Win 7 till that horse drops, or switch to Macs. Either way, don't think you gonna get much satisfaction outta MS on any new operating systems they make.
Sorry, but the words "Windows" and "satisfaction" don't belong in the same sentence, unless the words "doesn't give me any" are between them. Keep defending Microsoft, it's your right, but don't expect the rest of us to fall for this BS.
0 Agree

Nemesys
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 14 Jun 12 22:39
No worries all.

Windows 8 Service Pack 1 will address all of your concerns.
All the fixes, corrections, modifications etc,. will eventually be addressed.

In the meantime between time.......
Windows 8 Forums should provide some relief.

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/
0 Agree

Zod
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 15 Jun 12 14:24
My prediction:

Windows 8 already has too much bad press about the metro interface. Most reviews say the same thing. It would be great on a touchscreen/tablet style device, but Metro doesn't work that great for a PC.

Windows 8 will be a flop (Even bigger then vista).

They'll go back to a proper PC version of Windows for version 9.

I don't agree that this is people not wanting to adapt for the future. It's microsoft trying to use the same OS for PC's and Tablets. I think at some point they'll need to make seperate platforms.
0 Agree

Blu-ray
New Member
Posted on: 15 Jun 12 14:40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zod
Windows 8 will be a flop (Even bigger then vista).
.
Wasn't there something like Windows ME to, me thinks this was also a big M$ flop
0 Agree

olyteddy
Senior Moderator
Posted on: 15 Jun 12 14:50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-ray
Wasn't there something like Windows ME to, me thinks this was also a big M$ flop
Metro Edition
0 Agree

Guavaman
MyCE Junior Member
Posted on: 15 Jun 12 19:01
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liggy
I have tried it and in my opinion Metro is an epic fail if you don't have a touchscreen.
I've tried 3 beta versions so far. They all suck. This is not about being afraid of change. It's about precise, customizable control and organization over hundreds/thousands of bits of information and being able to navigate it all together with clarity and precision. Metro was not designed for any of that. It's meant to be a push-button kiosk for MS's cloud offerings and the "internets". The "organization" scheme amounts to a single grab-bag to dump everything into. And let's not forget, in Metro, the namesake of the OS -- WINDOWS -- don't even exist anymore! No, instead it should have been renamed ScrollBar 1.0, not Windows 8.

All theses people saying we're all scared of change... BS. 30+ years of development on the GUI hasn't been for naught. It's been an evolution, and its served both power users and casual users very well. There are dozens of tasks I do on a daily basis that would be a royal pain to try to do through Metro. I don't want that change because simply put it will slow me down. I ain't scared of change. What I'm scared of is more short-sighted, shoot-from-the-hip design for monkeys, "we'll add all those things back in by version 6.0" tripe we keep getting these days (Let's see, how long did it take them to add FOLDERS back to iOS and Android?! Duh from day 1). A user interface shouldn't be subject to the fad frenzy, fashion industry mentality. Let's go this way this week, and that way next, dashing toward whatever is popular at the moment. Let's change it simply for the sake of trying to be different and get attention.

Seriously, someone needs to go to all the design schools in the world and beat it out of these people's heads that they've got to "RETHINK" everything. It's a joke and a half. Every design grad student I know goes into school thinking they're going to re-invent the wheel or solve some obvious problem 7 billion people couldn't, and they either end up with their tails between their legs a few semesters later and have to back track to evolve some existing product OR they graduate with a ludicrous thesis. I swear, Metro for a desktop PC feels like a student was in charge of the project.

Evolution, not revolution baby!
0 Agree

AllanDeGroot
MyCE Resident
Posted on: 15 Jun 12 19:51
It is NOT about "Change" computer efficiency is ALL about minimizing the ammount of "Seek" & "Click"

The more times I have to visually search for something on the screen
then move the cursor to it to click it the WORSE an operating system is

the more clicks I have to make to accomplish a task the worse it is.

Windows8 requires 5-7 clicks to accomplish some tasks that I can accomplish with THREE in windows7

Oh sure if I had a touch screen it would be faster, but then I'd have to move my entire ARM, instead of my thumb.

Also a touch screen with video quality as good as my HD monitor wouls also cost a couple thousand dollars, compared to a couple hundred for the one I have that is less than a year old... That I'm VERY happy with.

The very next person who wants to say I'm scared of change can have my adress & phone number
so they can tell me in person that I'm scared of change...


AD
0 Agree

Guavaman
MyCE Junior Member
Posted on: 15 Jun 12 20:23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zod
I think at some point they'll need to make seperate platforms.
I laughed out loud when I saw they're going to be releasing a "Windows 8 Professional" edition...
0 Agree

Guavaman
MyCE Junior Member
Posted on: 18 Jun 12 00:45
You know, I was thinking... If for some weird reason I'm forced to use Windows 8 (say they pull another DirectX version trick like they did with XP/Vista), I'll just keep a folder on the desktop which will act as a replacement start menu. The folder will contain subfolders organized by application type just like I have in my start menu now. Actually it'd be a little bit more like the Win 3.1, Mac, Amiga days. I'll just have to add one more step to my daily login routine... login, click desktop, NEVER go back to metro. Heck, I wonder if its possible to write a little macro that runs on windows startup that automatically clicks desktop for you.
0 Agree

molly38
New Member
Posted on: 18 Jun 12 01:15
Seems to me the door is wide open for other companies to jump in and make MS a dinosaur
0 Agree

Chad_Bronson
MyCE Senior Member
Posted on: 28 Aug 12 19:42
Guys, guys... This isn't actually about selling copies of Windows 8. This is about making it look so horrendously bad people will downgrade to Windows 7.

But on a serious note, please Microsoft, don't force changes on us where it is not needed.
0 Agree

santana777
New Member
Posted on: 17 Dec 12 14:39
Well, lot of people have by new computer without touch screen, the original windows installed is already 8, the final version have bugs as the initial preview, if the metro is mandatory, easy solution, install 7 creaked, because they will not buy again another windows.
0 Agree

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